Seeking feedback on Omnipro II system with 4-wires smokes

[cmarcus]

Hello,

Thanks to all of you on cocoontech, I am starting to piece together a pretty nice Omnipro II setup for my new home. I've read numerous posts which have answered most of the questions I have had. Now I'm hoping to get some feedback on the smoke detector configuration I put together. I should preface all this by saying that I haven't yet ordered my Omnipro II and I haven't really started looking at the programming aspect of this. I'm trying to get my component selection and wiring schematic completed before I start throwing down some clams.

Design choices:

- I'm going with System Sensor 4WTAR-B smokes. A couple of reasons for this choice; I'd like to have sounders that all go off in the event of detection and I'd like to know visibly which sensor went off.

- I have 7 smokes that are all going on the same zone. I originally planned on a zone per floor (two plus the basement), but I changed my mind about this. I want every smoke to sound in the event of detection and having separate zones would required multiple reversing relays and EOL relays. By going with one zone, I save a little money. Also, the Form C relays and LEDs on these smokes allow me to see which detector went off. I didn't see much advantage to having multiple zones.

- Using one RSS-MOD relay at the panel and one EOLR-1 relay at the end of the chain.

Attached is my schematic. I included all connections to the Omnipro and used colors for the wires I actually expect to run. I only show 3 smokes here just to keep it less cluttered. I'm a little unsure about the RSS-MOD wiring. I followed the System Sensor installation documents, but I'm unsure about using one of the outputs of the Omnipro to drive T+ on the RSS-MOD. I'm thinking (read: assuming) that I can program the Omnipro so that Zone 5 is a fire zone and that if tripped, output 8 can then be enabled. Would this output be continuous or coded? Or is that programmable?

By my calculations my smokes setup would be consuming 395mA of current (7x50mA + 25mA RSS + 20mA EOLR). I will be cautious about how many more powered sensors go on the main board. I'm also purchasing a 16 zone input/output expander that will help me offload the power consumption of other active sensors in my system.

That's everything I can think of. Any feedback would be much appreciated. I'm sure I'm missing something or perhaps there's a better way to do this than I'm seeing.

Thanks in advance,
CMarcus

Edit: Got my schematic posted.

 

[Del91574]

The RSS can be set to either fire on a Temp-3 pulse or continous voltage to cause the relay to reverse polarity. Dipswitch setting for the purple (pretty sure on the color from memory) lead.

I don't know if I'd agree with the mentality of a lot of posters here, but on small fire systems, while it's a "nice to know" feature, by separating detectors or even running 3-4 zones, assuming splitting by floor, in most systems, I can't really see the effort and expense to install multiple 4 wire zones in a house that would have, generally speaking, 8-10 smokes maximum.

In the case of power consumption and complexity, I'd honestly recommend running a 2 wire loop and then worry about the reversed current only. In the case of HAI, since it doesn't directly carry a listing for a 2WTAB, I would run a 2W-MOD2, RSS, then run the loop as a 4 wire circuit and then a separate zone monitor maintenance and the additional features the MOD2 allows.

 

[Steve]

I run the 2 wires without sounders on my OPII. My personal choice is to leave the sounders out of each detector. Instead, I have several of the GE Piezos in the ceiling connected to an output that can be turned on and off independently. With this approach you can put more or less sounders then detectors or even put them in more strategic locations. You also have full control as to when they are on/off. As for location, each 2 wire detector still has the LED so you will know which one went off, although that would usually be the last thing I would check. If detector ever trips at any time other than a very obvious and known false first thing is get the family out. Checking detector is way down the list.

 

[cmarcus]

Thanks for the feedback.

The RSS can be set to either fire on a Temp-3 pulse or continous voltage to cause the relay to reverse polarity. Dipswitch setting for the purple (pretty sure on the color from memory) lead.

I don't know if I'd agree with the mentality of a lot of posters here, but on small fire systems, while it's a "nice to know" feature, by separating detectors or even running 3-4 zones, assuming splitting by floor, in most systems, I can't really see the effort and expense to install multiple 4 wire zones in a house that would have, generally speaking, 8-10 smokes maximum.

In the case of power consumption and complexity, I'd honestly recommend running a 2 wire loop and then worry about the reversed current only. In the case of HAI, since it doesn't directly carry a listing for a 2WTAB, I would run a 2W-MOD2, RSS, then run the loop as a 4 wire circuit and then a separate zone monitor maintenance and the additional features the MOD2 allows.

I agree about not needing multiple zones for such a small fire system. In the event of a real fire, I don't really care where it started or first got detected, I just want everyone out of the house pronto and the monitoring company dispatching it as a fire. The decision for the 4WTAR-B smokes was to pin point the originating detector during system installation. This is my first system so I expect some initial glitches and was trying to make troubleshooting easier. Perhaps I made a faulty assumption that this would help.

I'll certainly give the 2-wires another look with the 2W-MOD2 and RSS. At first glance, it looks as though this would get wired at the OPII like a 4-wire, but the smokes hang off of it in a 2-wire loop. Do I understand that correctly?

I posted my 4-wire schematic. Hopefully, I did this right. I'll probably draw up a 2-wire configuration too so I can compare cost and install complexity.

I run the 2 wires without sounders on my OPII. My personal choice is to leave the sounders out of each detector. Instead, I have several of the GE Piezos in the ceiling connected to an output that can be turned on and off independently. With this approach you can put more or less sounders then detectors or even put them in more strategic locations. You also have full control as to when they are on/off. As for location, each 2 wire detector still has the LED so you will know which one went off, although that would usually be the last thing I would check. If detector ever trips at any time other than a very obvious and known false first thing is get the family out. Checking detector is way down the list.

Steve - So your sounders are solely for fire alarms or do they sound for burglary as well? I like the idea, but my detector coverage is rather dense and the built-in sounders will provide plenty of sounder coverage throughout the house. However, this is good info in case I decide to back off on the number of detectors. My only other concern is how the inspector will treat this. I live in Atlanta and other than placement, I've been told the only other requirement is that testing one detector must cause all detectors to sound. If the sounders are separate, this may not fly with the city. I'll definitely look into it further though. Thanks.

 

[Del91574]

The 2WMOD and RSS wires to a panel same as a conventional 4 wire loop. Depending on how it's wired, it would allow you to install a "clean me" supervisory to a panel zone.

I'm assuming you're installing this to meet building code, so the majority of what I've experienced is generally 80 dB @ pillow height in a sleeping area as a rule of thumb. Also, signalling must be temp-3 and not be able to be confused with any other signalling method on a system, so they must be 100% different than what would sound for a burglary alarm. Sounders located within smokes are only able to be used for that purpose and ones in close proximity, I wouldn't be surprised if they drew a flag by the AHJ's. In the realm of a fire alarm, as well as with most other things, KISS works best, and I'd recommend installing detectors with sounders integral and just do a tandem ring before putting a ton of effort installing auxilliary sounders.

Also, if you're attempting to meet code, unfortunately 9/10 times, you're not going to be able to back off coverage.

 

[cmarcus]

Thanks for the valuable feedback, DELInstallations. I found the wiring diagram for the 2WMOD2+RSS-MOD configuration on the System Sensor website. I think I'm starting to understand the configuration you're recommending. On the OPII, I would have to program one output for resettable aux power (this to power the 2W-MOD2) and program one as a FIRE sound trigger to drive the purple lead on the RSS-MOD (with RSS-MOD dipswitch set accordingly).

I like the simplicity of wiring the 2-wires in this approach, but what does this 2W-MOD2 get me other than the "clean me" maintenance signal that I can wire to a separate zone?

Thanks for dealing with my ignorance here, but this is a big help!

 

[Steve]

Yea, if you need to meet codes and pass inspection you need to do the sounders internal. I have my old 120V detectors with sounders from when house was built and left them in place. I added LV ones to all bedrooms and other spots. The sounders do both alarm and fire and for fire you do get the temp-3 pattern.

 

[Del91574]

The 2WMOD-2 would get you an "out of sensitivity" and freeze trouble output, as well as being able to put the detectors into a walk test mode. As stated before (I believe) wiring a 2 wire fire loop simplifies the connections to the individual units, and if really desired, provided you ran a 4 conductor daisy chain, you could run 2 zones of fire without rewiring much. It eliminates the power supervision relay and price of detectors is very comprable, if not cheaper, depending on your vendor.

Style D wiring wouldn't be able to be done using an RRS relay and the 2W, but it is an option if desired, which would allow the fire loop to function if the "loop" broke or failed at any point, as the unit would drive the circuit from both sides.

 

[cmarcus]

So I now have an updated wiring diagram based on using the 2WTA-Bs, the 2W-MOD2, and RSS-MOD. I went with the configuration that allows the maintenance signal to be sent to a separate zone.

Here's how I think I would need to program the OPII:
- Set zone 1 as a 4-wire smoke and program it as a fire zone
- Program zone 2 as a trouble type
- Program Output 1 as a switched output
- Program Output 2 as an interior fire sounder

Did I do all this correctly?

 

[Del91574]

Without me scrutinizing closely, it does appear correct. Fire as a standard 4 wire zone, supervisiory as a NO 2 wire zone. Reset for the fire alarm is done via normal 4 wire methods and the purple from the RRS is the tandem ring trigger.

 

[wadeholler]

Do did the wiring as specified in post #9 work as desired?

I am about to do this and am having a hard time understanding exactly what needs connected where. I have a omni iie and if the above is correct that would be great.

Thanks!

 

[cmarcus]

Wadehollar - I haven't been able to wire it up yet. My house is so far behind schedule that we are just now past drywall. I think I'll be able to tackle it sometime in the next 3-4 weeks and I'll post my progress here.

 

[mattbuff5]

Any updates on the success of the wiring. I have the same setup on my OPII. All functions seem to work (Maintenance signal, EZ Walk Test) except the RRS does not seem to be reversing polarity to activate and sync sounders on all smokes. I have attempted wirring via Fig 1 and Fig 2 in System Sensor's modulewiring.pdf

 

[mattbuff5]

I got mine working. I followed diagram above in post #9 except ran ports 1&2 on 2W-MOD2 to 12V Switch and Purple on RRS-Mod to output 1+ programed as "Interior Fire Sounder" to Trigger on for 1 Sec when Smoke Alarm Trips.

 

[Del91574]

If you have the output to provide "interior fire sounder" it would need to ring until the alarm is restored, not 1 second. If you provide a voltage trigger, it would need to be on until the same. All determined via dipswitch on the RRS.