Smoke/heat detector or heat detector only for kitchen?

[Ckerch]

While the drywall is off during my kitchen remodel, I thought I would add a detector in the kitchen. I plan on ordering a ELK M1 when I get the drywall done so I would like to be able to interface with it. My question is do I use one of the Smoke/heat combo detectors or a heat only. If I use a heat only can the Elk directly interface with it? What brand and model numbers does everyone use? What is type of wire is generally used?

Also, on a different but related subject. Presently my house was wired with 110v smokes. The wire that they used was 14/3 with ground. I want to go to a low voltage 4 wire smokes but use the existing wires. Do you see any problem with that plan.

Thanks in advance
Carl

 

[gizzmo]

Smoke detectors are prohibited in a kitchen. If you use the 14/3 smoke alarm wire and want to replace them with a fire system with smoke detectors use a 2-wire setup like system sensor 2WTAB and RRS-MOD. Make sure all devices are listed as compatible with your panel and no heats on a powered 2-wire smoke loop. DEL can chime in here if it is a ELK panel, doesn't seem like they jump through any of the listing hoops.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk

 

[Ckerch]

Smoke detectors are prohibited in a kitchen. If you use the 14/3 smoke alarm wire and want to replace them with a fire system with smoke detectors use a 2-wire setup like system sensor 2WTAB and RRS-MOD. Make sure all devices are listed as compatible with your panel and no heats on a powered 2-wire smoke loop. DEL can chime in here if it is a ELK panel, doesn't seem like they jump through any of the listing hoops.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk

My thought is, I would like to use the existing 14/3 w/gnd instead of running new wire. I only have part of the first floor drywall stripped down to the stud. I can replace the 14 ga wire, but if it works .....

I did not know smokes are prohibited in the kitchen. It makes since because it seems like you would get false detect anytime you toast some bread.

I did read somewhere that the heat detector needs to be on its own zone or loop. I had ordered an Ademco 502 but not sure if it is will work with the ELK.

Thanks
Carl

 

[Del91574]

You can repurpose the 14/3 as FA cabling, however I've never personally been a fan of using a bare copper conductor for a LV circuit cable. If you do use the 14/3, plan on pigtailing the conductors to smaller AWG's. Just make sure that it's done properly so device supervision would still be intact, which is the biggest error I see on fire alarm, DIY or otherwise.

In your particular case, I'd preferably go the 2 wire route and install a 2WMOD and RRS and eliminate the compatibility or listing concerns, provide tandem ring and then a maintenance output to the panel. You would not be able to install a mechanical heat detector on the same loop, no matter what the panel. Leave the existing locations alone, assuming no smokes are located within the kitchen area, and if fire is of a concern there, plan on a new homerun to a single zone for the new detector (or pull an 18/4 to plan for future changes).

 

[Steve]

Yea, I would leave the HV completely as is. If you ever get inspected or sell or whatever you may need to have the original HV detectors in place. I would (and did) simply run separate LV 2 wire detectorswhere I wanted them. Some new and some near HV ones. I would probably use a rate of rise heat detector in kitchen.

 

[apostolakisl]

I would not repurpose the wire for the same reason as Steve stated.

There are 4 wire detectors that are dual purposed. They have smoke detection but only activate the sounder on that local unit when tripped. They do not trip the panel. This unit type also has heat and rate of rise detection which when tripped does signal the panel. This is the best of both worlds in my opinion warning the homeowner that they need to check things out in the kitchen but not calling the fire department unless it is definitely a fire.

Also, the rate of rise detectors can be falsely tripped if they are too close to the oven. When the oven door opens a big "poof" of very hot air can cause it to trip the rate of rise. You should keep the detector away from a location where that might happen.

Any generic heat detector will work with Elk. The passive (non-powered) devices are a simple open/closed circuit that connects to any zone on an Elk. These can not be mixed with powered 2-wire devices but can be mixed with 4 wire devices on the same zone using only the two signal wires.

 

[Del91574]

Steve, the best idea, prior to any modification of any required system, especially those needed for the C of O and insurance purposes, would be to consult the AHJ and see if their blessing is there or not.

From that point, as long as it's been done correctly, there's no foul in changing one system for another, as long as the same functionality is maintained and the AHJ signs off on the intended replacement. It is also completely acceptable and common practice to reuse existing HV protective circuits as LV circuits when they have been removed from the HV supply, it happens daily on the full blown fire system side during takeovers and changeouts .I don't know if I would agree in placing only a couple of monitored detectors and leave the 120V system untouched when the OP's intent is to provide the same level of detection and improved protection for the property when compared to local-only 120V detectors with additional spot detection to be connected to a monitored system.

ROR detectors would be one of my last choices for a kitchen where steam from cooking or even dishwashing could cause the 15*/min increase. As touched upon, appropriate location comes to consideration, as well as if ROR is an appropriate criteria or not.