Smokes on non-main Elk Board issue

[IVB]

Well, that's what I thought until just now. Is it possible for a motion sensor to work fine on an expander, but not for a smoke?

In my case, here's the facts:
- Motion sensor is on Z28, on expander 1, connected to Branch 1 of the Data Bug Retrofit. It works fine.
- Smoke Detector, when attached to Z8 on main board works fine.
- Same smoke detector, taken to 2ndary cabinet with same cable, and all I did was unscrew it from the main board [i.e., didn't touch the wires or resistor on smoke], then plugged into Z17 [on same expander #1) does NOT work.

I don't get that - i thought I had proven that expander to work by virtue of the fact that I'm using a Motion Sensor on it. I thought I had proven that smoke detector, cable, & resistor to work by virtue of testing on Z8.

Anyone have any ideas?

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

Do you have a multimeter? If not, get one.

Now, look at the DC voltage between your smoke detector zone input in both scenarios (i.e. look at it when attached to a zone on the main board and a zone on the expander module). If you have the same voltage differential AND if the zones are setup correctly via the Elk RP software I think I may know what is going on.

 

[IVB]

I did the test while the zones were disabled, as that means there's no alarm going off. Is that what you meant by "zones setup correctly"? Or should I rerun this with the zones enabled, and the alarm going off in one instance?

For the zones disabled test, In both instances, the smoke gets 13.5V delivered, the smokes have 7V running across the N/O and C terminals.

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

Do the voltage tests with smoke detectors idle and alarm mode, but perform the measurements right at the Elk zone input terminals.

 

[IVB]

Apologies as I'm still coming up to speed on the terminology - does that mean with the smoke zones enabled in ElkRP, or with the smoke zones disabled?

 

[FrankMc]

IVB

I think what BSR saying is this.....Setup (in config software) the zone expander input that you have the smoke detector connected to the same as the input on the master were you had it working....Measure the voltage at the Expander input terminals and compare this to the voltage measured at the master panel input with the smoke detedtor connected to it...

HTH
Frank

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

I'm not sure how you configure a smoke detector via the RP software. However it is supposed to be done, make sure it is done that way for the expander zone.

Measure the voltage at the expander's input terminals to that zone with the smoke detector in an "alarm" state (fire) and in a normal OK state.

 

[IVB]

I can do half of that now as the alarm won't go off; it's also 7/7.1v across the main board zone input with everything enabled.

I can't do the expander test now as it might wake up the kids since it immediately goes into alarm mode, i'll do that tomorrow.

Thanks for the help.

 

[IVB]

Ok, just did the other half of the test. It's 7/7.1V across the zone inputs on the expander as well as the smoke when everything is enabled and setup correctly via the software.

Does this trigger any clues from folks?

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

So you are reading the same voltage when the smoke detector is at normal and alarming? I guess I don't understand the way these smoke detectors work.

 

[toymaster458]

What are the versions of your Firmware, Hardware and Bootware on the expanders?

 

[IVB]

So you are reading the same voltage when the smoke detector is at normal and alarming? I guess I don't understand the way these smoke detectors work.

Hey, you're right - that is weird.

What are the versions of your Firmware, Hardware and Bootware on the expanders?

List starts with #1, shows keypad as #1.

#2 & #4 have 1.3.7, 0.5, 3.0.5

Oddly enough, I don't see Input Expander #3 in the list, even though it is shown on the left tree view. Check it out.

(FWIW, I was plugging the smoke into expander #2, so the above firmware is the one that was being used).

 

[Digger]

If he is reading about 7 Vdc on the zone then you seem to have it wired correctly as far as the EOL. Since a smoke detector will provide a short when its in alarm the voltage on the zone will drop to 0 (you are shunting the EOL). This will trip the zone into alarm (obviously).

Since the detector works correctly on the M1 zone and not on the expander zone is what is wierd. I have several 4 wire System Sensor smokes on a zone expander on the top floor of my house. I also have several CO Detectors as well. I have seen where I power down the system and power back up and one of the CO's will false alarm. Not all of the time and if I reset the SAUX its fine after that.

What detector are you using and are you using a relay for supervision of the power to the detector?

Is the power for the expander from a different source (not from the M1 but from a supplemental power supply). If you are using a seperate power supply did you tie the commons together.

 

[Digger]

You have a zone expander 3 but its not on the list. And you false alarm on a zone from expander 2?

Check that you didnt accidently put the same address for expanders 2 and 3.

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

I don't use smoke detectors on my Elk. Does it "close" or "open" its contacts on an alarm?

You can trouble shoot the software all day, but if he is truly reading seven volts for BOTH conditions (alarm and normal) it just isn't going to work!

Can you do this simple test? Take out the leads to the smoke detector from the zone inputs. Put one lead of an EOL resistor in the + zone input and leave the other end of the resistor dangle. See what you are registering for your zone.

Then put the other end of the resistor to the - zone input terminal. See what your Elk is registering for that zone.

Then take that resistor out and put a piece of wire in its place (in other words short out the + and - zone inputs). See what your zone is registering.

This will take the smoke detector out of the picture all together. If it doesn't work (change) with these tests, there is something else basically wrong.