Starting down the home security\automation\integration path..

[intozwave]

Milestone! ... First major purchase for the home security / automation project

Does anyone know if the Elk M1 supports the new Schlage zwave locks? The lock/unlock piece looks pretty but I dont want their gateway and VersamiCasa doesnt seem stable enough (imho).

Thanks!
Andrew

To support the Schlage Z-Wave Locks the Z-Wave controller needs to be minimum of Zensys 5.02 protocol - the ELK-M1XZW Z-Wave Interface does not utilize those libraries neither does the VRC0P-1LW which are the 2 ways I have hooked up a Z-Wave Controller directly to the ELK.

The Elk is a great security panel - if you are looking at Z-Wave as the base technology of your automation take a look at the HomeSeer Software - Z-Wave is one base technologies(no plug-in needed) within HomeSeer. Let automation software/hardware do what it does well and let your security system what it does well - protect your home. It is very simple to tie the two together with tcpip and the UltraM1G plug-in.

 

[nick_l]

The ELK has access control capability. Get the ELK relay board to run your door strike power, and then just get a 26-bit weigand compatible proximity card reader and hook it into the 4 pins on the back of the ELK KP1 or KP2 keypads (the little arming station pads don't have support for this). ELK makes or rebrands a prox sensor which will work. I think I've seen it as low as $50. Then you can create users in ElkRP and start assigning cards to them and writing automation rules to pop the door open when the card is scanned. $2500 a door is way too much money if you've already got the ELK. A door strike and reader should cost under $200 per door, and a relay board is under $100 (which can be used for multiple doors). It's probably wise to buy a separate power supply for the door strike power also.

Elk also makes a module specifically for access control, the ELK-M1KAM, http://www.elkproducts.com/products/m1/M1KAM.htm which has more inputs/controls for doors like request to exit buttons and door-held-open alarms. That way you can use the prox in the keypad to arm/disarm and the prox for the M1KAM to unlock if you wanted to treat them as separate events.

Nick

 

[whatuusay1]

The ELK has access control capability. Get the ELK relay board to run your door strike power, and then just get a 26-bit weigand compatible proximity card reader and hook it into the 4 pins on the back of the ELK KP1 or KP2 keypads (the little arming station pads don't have support for this). ELK makes or rebrands a prox sensor which will work. I think I've seen it as low as $50. Then you can create users in ElkRP and start assigning cards to them and writing automation rules to pop the door open when the card is scanned. $2500 a door is way too much money if you've already got the ELK. A door strike and reader should cost under $200 per door, and a relay board is under $100 (which can be used for multiple doors). It's probably wise to buy a separate power supply for the door strike power also.

Elk also makes a module specifically for access control, the ELK-M1KAM, http://www.elkproducts.com/products/m1/M1KAM.htm which has more inputs/controls for doors like request to exit buttons and door-held-open alarms. That way you can use the prox in the keypad to arm/disarm and the prox for the M1KAM to unlock if you wanted to treat them as separate events.

Nick

Excellent info - thank you for all the input on access control. The circuit finder kit arrived today.. ill give it a shot follow up. I'm hoping it works out - it would certainly make installing the brueltech monitor much easier.

 

[Spanky]

Does anyone know if the Elk M1 supports the new Schlage zwave locks?
Thanks!
Andrew

Elk is working with a third party Zwave interface manufacturer that has the interface to the Zwave locks. Elk will announce it when the interface to the M1 is complete.

 

[Photon]

Elk is working with a third party Zwave interface manufacturer that has the interface to the Zwave locks. Elk will announce it when the interface to the M1 is complete.

What's this? Specific info on a future Elk product? Thank you, and I hope the trend continues.
May your future continue to look very bright!

Aloha. . . John

 

[jrmahler]

The two biggest n00b mistakes that I made were:

1) splitting my speaker wires in the attic and basement instead of right at the control box. If I would have ran all of the speakers to the control box, then I would have more options for changing what is in parallel and series to keep my ohms where they should be when I add new speakers.

2) being afraid of putting an input expander in the attic. Where I live, there were no temperature concerns with being in the attic and instead of having one wire ging to an input expander and branching from there I have 22 wires running up conduit. Now I want to add more to my attic and have to either rewire or put in more conduit in the wall (still deciding which to do).


As for installtion, I had absolutely no experience with electrical and was able to install mine pretty easily. I have a single story with an unfinished basement and fairly open attic, so this made it easier. I went wireless on window and door contacts and wired on motion and glass breakage.

I have been looking into door strikes a bit (wife says no way right now) and would be suprised if you couldn't do it for under $200.

On another note, a couple of electricians at my work said they would charge ~$5,000 in labor to do my installation. Parts altogether cost me ~$2,500.
6 wireless door contacts ($35 each)
5 wireless window contacts ($35 each)
9 wired motion/glass break sensors ($50 each)
2 wired garage door sensors ($15 each)
6 speakers ($10 each)
Elk MG ($650)
Input Expander ($85)
Wireless Expander ($75)
Ethernet Adaptor ($250)
2 Moisture Sensors ($15 each)
42" box ($75)
A ton of wire
Miscellaneous mounting hardware, electrical tools, and connectors

 

[whatuusay1]

The two biggest n00b mistakes that I made were:

1) splitting my speaker wires in the attic and basement instead of right at the control box. If I would have ran all of the speakers to the control box, then I would have more options for changing what is in parallel and series to keep my ohms where they should be when I add new speakers.

2) being afraid of putting an input expander in the attic. Where I live, there were no temperature concerns with being in the attic and instead of having one wire ging to an input expander and branching from there I have 22 wires running up conduit. Now I want to add more to my attic and have to either rewire or put in more conduit in the wall (still deciding which to do).


As for installtion, I had absolutely no experience with electrical and was able to install mine pretty easily. I have a single story with an unfinished basement and fairly open attic, so this made it easier. I went wireless on window and door contacts and wired on motion and glass breakage.

I have been looking into door strikes a bit (wife says no way right now) and would be suprised if you couldn't do it for under $200.

On another note, a couple of electricians at my work said they would charge ~$5,000 in labor to do my installation. Parts altogether cost me ~$2,500.
6 wireless door contacts ($35 each)
5 wireless window contacts ($35 each)
9 wired motion/glass break sensors ($50 each)
2 wired garage door sensors ($15 each)
6 speakers ($10 each)
Elk MG ($650)
Input Expander ($85)
Wireless Expander ($75)
Ethernet Adaptor ($250)
2 Moisture Sensors ($15 each)
42" box ($75)
A ton of wire
Miscellaneous mounting hardware, electrical tools, and connectors

Junior - thank you for the additional details. Are you integrating with PC functions, touchscreens or anything like that? It sounds like I'm about 2 years behind you Is the 5k install mainly due to wiring through walls? or something else?

Thanks again,
Andrew

 

[jrmahler]

Right now my system is pretty simple, just security with a bit of automation to auto arm/disarm. I am budget constrained, so only work on a bit at a time. Since I still have some more work to do on the security side before I can start looking at automation , I haven't looked into PC versus Elk automation a ton. I do know that two projects on my list (automate water pump and sprinkler system) can be done with the Elk, but not sure if this is the way I will go or not. Also, lighting is a big one that I want to get working on, but there are so many options that I don't plan on making a decision until I am ready to do the whole thing. As for touchscreens, I want one bad, but the cost is prohibitive. I have seen some used touchscreen computers on ebay (from photo kiosks) that can be modified, but haven't had the guts to jump into that project just yet.

The 5k was just the wiring since there were a lot of runs and the house is finished. My point was that these installs can get really expensive if you hire it out. I have no experience at all, but through reading forums and talking to people have been able to figure it out, saving a ton of money, which allows me to buy more equipment!

 

[whatuusay1]

Right now my system is pretty simple, just security with a bit of automation to auto arm/disarm. I am budget constrained, so only work on a bit at a time. Since I still have some more work to do on the security side before I can start looking at automation , I haven't looked into PC versus Elk automation a ton. I do know that two projects on my list (automate water pump and sprinkler system) can be done with the Elk, but not sure if this is the way I will go or not. Also, lighting is a big one that I want to get working on, but there are so many options that I don't plan on making a decision until I am ready to do the whole thing. As for touchscreens, I want one bad, but the cost is prohibitive. I have seen some used touchscreen computers on ebay (from photo kiosks) that can be modified, but haven't had the guts to jump into that project just yet.

The 5k was just the wiring since there were a lot of runs and the house is finished. My point was that these installs can get really expensive if you hire it out. I have no experience at all, but through reading forums and talking to people have been able to figure it out, saving a ton of money, which allows me to buy more equipment!

Junior - thanks again, makes sense. I'm in the same boat, our house is finished and its going to take some work to wire the place. I'm hoping to hardware most everything - primarily for reliability and asthetics (fewer surface mount components). I've run network cabling prior to this (computer tech by trade) so I'm familier with whats involved from that angle. Its slow going and I can imagine hring it out wouldnt be cost effective - at least not in my frugal mind. I have a side computer business which fuels most of my technology related hobbies. I recently pulled 2cat5 and 1 rg6 to each bedroom (talk about a job). The master has 6 cat5e and 2 RG6 pulled from the basement. I was able to find a cold air return to tap into (from the basement) and pull all the way up to the 2nd floor. It was a challenge but I have a 'chace' way I can use to get cables from the basement to the 2nd floor, and the first floor is accessible from tbe unfinished basement. Its a whole lot of work but its so cool

I've been looking into the multi-touch screens from Dell and HP.. man.. I am so tempted to install one in the wall I have the computer background to do it - and wire it up but I'm lacking in the underlying security and sensors. Kind of a cart before the horse scenario.. but man do I want a sexy capacitive multitouch monitor in the wall All in good time i supose.

Thanks again for the advice. I still havent heard back from the security guys - we'll see if they call back, perhaps the whole Elk discussion scared them off. They really wanted to sell me a GE panel..

In other news I arrived home to discover my livingroom / kitchen mediacenter had shot craps and will no longer power on. I hope its just a dead powersupply, I really dont want to have to rebuild another PC. Must save money for Security / HA

Andrew

 

[whatuusay1]

* Update *

Turns out the Mediacenter lost a power supply, I ordered another and the Mediacenter is back in service, wife will be happy.

Brueltech 1240 has arrived - I cant wait to get it installed. I'm hoping to have some time around Christmas to get it in. I also took time to install HID's on the wifes Acura TSX last night, she now has HID lo and Hi beams Fogs are next.

I have a low voltage contractor stopping by tomorrow - hoping for the best. They're a local company I found on Servicemagic.com.

 

[whatuusay1]

* 12/31/09 Update *
I've been putting some serious thinking into this project and after hearing back from a local contractor I've come up with a plan. I will break the install up into multiple phases due to budget limitations. I'm planning on having the following sensors installed as part of the first phase of this project. I'm planning on going with this Elk Package From Smarthomeusa http://www.smarthomeusa.com/ShopByManufact...m/ELK-M1GSYS4S/ I'll be adding the Serial-Ethernet adapter (ELK-M1XEP). Will I need any other accessories to get started? I'm a bit confused on monitoring at the moment, I dont have a home phone, nor a voip line. I'm planning on using NextAlarm for monitoring - it looks like their ABN device will be my best bet. Any thoughts? Experiences? I'll probably use the e-alerts if it loses connection as my backup for the time being. Perhaps a perpay cell backup down the road.

10 wired window contacts. The Low voltage company quoted me $60\window for recessed magnetic contacts. These will be installed into the side track of my vinyl windows. Any concerns here? I looked at the MicraG wireless contacts from http://www.ion-digital.com but I'm thinking after install plus the wireless receiver I'm probably about the same cost as wired contacts.

3 wired door contacts. The Low voltage company quoted me $50\doorfor recessed magnetic contacts. These will be installed into the side track of my wood doors (front/rear/garage). Any concerns here? I looked at the PlungerG wireless contacts from http://www.ion-digital.com but the cost is $25 extra for wired and it seems like a better long term solution. I'm going to have 4 conductor wire run to allow for the door contacts as well as a deadbolt plunger (deadbolt extended confirmation).

2 wired garage door contacts. Still waiting on these to be quoted. I expect $50-60\door. I'm looking at using these sensors - thoughts? http://www.smarthome.com/7455/Garage-Door-...-SM-226L/p.aspx

4 wired motion sensors. The Low voltage company is recommending the Bosch Blueline series (pet friendly). I'm waiting to hear back which model, they quoted 100\sensor with install. We don't have any pets but I'd like to get a dog down the road. Thoughts?

4 glass break sensors. The Low voltage company is recommending a recessed round unit - probably the FG-1625RFM but I'm going to confirm.

1 Kiddie end of line relay. I currently have 7 Kiddie 120vt interconnected smoke detectors. I'd like to keep them if possible since they're installed and working It looks like Kiddie offers a relay for the system to provide contacts for an alarm panel. http://www.amazon.com/Kidde-Relay-Module-H...0085&sr=8-1

I've included my first level floor plan to help with sensor placements.

Phase 2 will be completed myself due to cost and much easier installations.

3 waterbug sensors - (laundry room, kitchen sink, bathroom) I'm thinking of using these sensors http://www.smarthomeusa.com/ShopByManufact.../Item/GRI-2600/ Thoughts?

3 themostat sensors for the Elk (garage / outdoor / basement freezer) - Whats the best way to do this? The Elk sensors are pretty pricey.
http://www.smarthome.com/1283ZTR/M1-Zone-T...e-M1ZTSR/p.aspx & http://www.smarthome.com/1283ZTS/M1-Zone-T...ce-M1ZTS/p.aspx

1 Cat5e/Cat6 to my Sprinkler controller (mounted in the garage). I'm not sure which controller to go with yet. I have a simple 5 zone system in the yard. I'd like to be able to be alerted to its activity, control etc.

3 Tamper switches (cable and phone boxes on the side of the house), as well as 2 lengths of wire included with the phone and cable lines running into those boxes (from the ground up). I dont know which sensors yet - just want to have the ability to monitor access to those services.

 

[ddennerline]

Instead of focusing on the Elk components, you may want to put some design energy into the wiring closet. I say this because when I started out my project, I spent lots of time thinking about the components, and little time related to the “HA/Security Housing†part of the project. As a result, I spent in inordinate amount of time redoing work. Things such as:

• What’s the best size for structured media box?
• How can Elk access home network?
• How can Elk access POTs?
• How much conduit must be run to wiring closet?
• What about backup/auxiliary power?
• Does the electrical circuit have enough spare amperage to support Elk/Security/HA?
• How many power plugs will be need?
• How are my Elk components going to be arranged in SMB?

In hindsite, I would not have ordered the ElkM1G “package†because I only used the M1KP1 and ElkM1G. The 14†SMB, 6AH battery, and Telephone jack are sitting in my “parts closet.

Some of the questions are hard to define because your system will most likely grow as you find new ways to improve your safety and comfort. Ultimately, you have to build in enough room for expansion while at the same time staying within some fixed budget.

 

[whatuusay1]

Instead of focusing on the Elk components, you may want to put some design energy into the wiring closet. I say this because when I started out my project, I spent lots of time thinking about the components, and little time related to the “HA/Security Housing†part of the project. As a result, I spent in inordinate amount of time redoing work. Things such as:

• What’s the best size for structured media box?
• How can Elk access home network?
• How can Elk access POTs?
• How much conduit must be run to wiring closet?
• What about backup/auxiliary power?
• Does the electrical circuit have enough spare amperage to support Elk/Security/HA?
• How many power plugs will be need?
• How are my Elk components going to be arranged in SMB?

In hindsite, I would not have ordered the ElkM1G “package†because I only used the M1KP1 and ElkM1G. The 14†SMB, 6AH battery, and Telephone jack are sitting in my “parts closet.

Some of the questions are hard to define because your system will most likely grow as you find new ways to improve your safety and comfort. Ultimately, you have to build in enough room for expansion while at the same time staying within some fixed budget.

d.dennerline - Thank you for your comments. I hadn't really planned out power usage and needs - I very well might end up not being able to use the standard enclosure and battery down the road. I'll rethink those aspects. As far as the other items - I havent really detailed where I'll have the equipment, power but thats not a concern since the elk equipment will be in the same are as my network closet, network, coax and alarm will all terminate in the same location. I installed a dedicated 20amp (12g) outlet in the 'wiring closet', this will be used for the alarm and computer/network equipment. I don't expect to have any issues on that front. I'll certainly need to think out my Elk power requirements and enclosure size.


Andrew

 

[whatuusay1]

* 1/6/2010 * Update

The Whole House Surge Suppressor is installed, as is the brultech ecm-1240. I have the main leads of the brultech setup but I havent determinted how to group the rest of the loads into the remaining channels. I ordered additional CT's to allow me to group multiple circuits together. I'm thinking of grouping them into these categories. Thoughts?

1 - Mains (total usage)
2 - Furnace/AC
3 - Washer / Dryer
4 - Kitchen (refridge/oven/dishwasher)
5 - Garage / Exterior / Irrigation / Basement
6 - Bedrooms

For those that havent played around with a brultech feel free to check it out. http://24.123.98.94:9009

I'll follow up with some pictures - since thats what its all about

Thanks,
Andrew