Starting down the home security\automation\integration path..

[whatuusay1]

Well... finally purchased my first home and its time to begin thinking about home security. Our home is a 2 story, 3000sq, 3car house, daylight basement with attic and basement access. We have 2 exterior doors + 2 garage doors (double and a single). The first floor has 14 seperate windows to monitor (several in groups).

I'm comfortable running wire however its not feasible to hardware lighting controls. I've been pouring through threads both here and at avsforum to gain insight into the available options and opinions about brand / features / expandability etc. I'm at a crossroads to select the heart of the system which will be ultimately expanded to encompass home automation features. I've not yet selected many of the features or technologies to use - so this is somewhat of an opening plea for help The topic of home automation / security and general integration is so large I'm having a hard time wrapping my head fully around it all.

I'm a computer tech and IT enthusiest at heart and enjoy DYI projects, I currently have 2 Windows 7 mediacenters controlling our media in the house (bedroom and livingroom). I kinda have a vision of using those or that kind of an interface for system control. I'm thinking a cortexa style interface (fluid capacitive touchscreen) wallmounted LCD's) to interface with all systems (security/lighting/irrigation/power usage/hvac/ water monitoring etc) ... of course that vision is a ways off but I know i need to ensure each piece of the puzzel will work with the other - less I spend extra money where its not needed.

Ive been looking at the Elk M1 for security and automation - with a yet to be determined interface method (insteon/Zwave/UPB). I'm not 100% sold on the Elk although it seems like a well respected system and looks to provide the type of functionality I'm looking for. If anyone has used alternatives or would recommend something different please let me know. I'd love to tie in thermostat / temp / water alert / access control / smoke-fire alert / power monitoring into the system.

I'm a computer geek at heart and I know there are lots of threads on pros / cons of computer based systems so I dont want to open that can of worms - whatever system solution I go with needs to integrate with a computer (web interface etc). I'd like to tie the systems into the home computers (mediacenters). I'm not sure if i need another system to provide the screen / interfaces or what would be involved. I'd like to ultimagely install a 10"+ capacitive touchscreen in the masterbedroom / kitchen area to control the house systems, perhaps a 7-8" screen in the garage. Is this something for Homeseer / mainlobby / cqc etc? Advice please? I've seen the Cortexa demos and mostly like what I see - althrough there system is closed and dealer only which kinda kills it for me. It like most dealer only systems seems pretty pricey.

I've played with X-10 a while back and it was pretty rough (slow responses or missed commands) so I'm about to cross off Insteon.. and Zwave I've looked at MiCasaVera although the forums seem to indicate its a new and fairly unstable product thus far. Whatever solution I decide to go with must be reliable - as reliable as I can get it without hardwiring everything. I also have a Hunter irrigation system which I would like to be able to schedule and monitor via the 'system'. I'm also looking at the TED 5000 and brultech power monitoring systems - I'm somewhat torn as to which I should go with... I like the additional capabilities of the brultech but i dont really want to pay for extra software to make it cool. Ted's integration with Google Power meter (albiet basic) looks cool and would make a nice page on the whole touchscreen power page (without re-inventing the wheel via custom graphing solutions).

So clear as mud right? I'm hoping for any advice or guidance that the community could recommend. I have a few alarm companies coming by to provide quotes and advice - I expect it will be quite pricey, even for a basic Elk M1 install. I'm fine with doing the work myself but I dont want to take a fatal first step that prevents me from doing what I want down the line

Thank you for taking the time to read through this post. I look forward to a full work blog once we get started.

- Andrew

 

[Ira]

The Brultech ECM-1240 software is free. There's also at least one third-party software product for it that is free.

You may want to consider a larger touchscreen in the kitchen if you have room. I purchased the ELO 1900L (widescreen 16:10, small enough to fit between upper cabinets and countertop) touchscreen that will be used for television (DirecTV connection), regular PC stuff (web browsing, some other app's), HA software control (CQC), and security panel control (Elk M1G). I've prototyped everything except trying to send the DirecTV signal 80' over cat5e and some of the IR control stuff, and it all works well together. Problem I have now is I've bought so much stuff for automation/security projects that I've become overwhelmed with it all and seem to "churn" a lot trying to decide what to do next.

Ira

 

[whatuusay1]

Thank you for the info on the brultech, I had seen several posts where purchasing softeare was discussed - I'll have to review them again to find out exactly what comes with the brultech units and what the add on software is. I've been looking at larger monitors - just have to make sure they're not 'too' big - HP and Dell both make 18" multi-touch monitors that would take advantage of win7's multitouch capabilities. I'd need to come up with a screen / control system of some sort - idealy something that looks slick like cortexa's interface (gesture based etc). I'm ok with using a low power PC behind the screens - or extending the vga/dvi/hdmi + usb to the basement if needed.

Thanks,
Andrew

 

[jwilson56]

Did you check out my blog here? It showcases my setup.

 

[Dave X10]

..... Ive been looking at the Elk M1 for security ..... I'm not 100% sold on the Elk although it seems like a well respected system.

All I can offer is MY opinion. However... I don't think you'll find a more respected name in home security than Elk.

I'm a computer geek at heart and I know there are lots of threads on pros / cons of computer based systems so I dont want to open that can of worms -

I will. Nothing works as well as a big processor with lots of memory. I use a Home Automation Computer... and wouldn't do it any other way.

I've played with X-10 a while back and it was pretty rough (slow responses or missed commands) so I'm about to cross off Insteon..

I know for a fact... that in most homes... ALL automation brands can be completely reliable. How well the setup is planned and maintained makes all the difference. A good working knowledge of the technologies will be your best tools.

 

[hucker]

I remember when I was where you are at. I felt like I couldn't get my arms around anything. I was upset that I coun't use an elk keypad on my CADDX security, is it really true that a security zone only has one sensor, how much does this stuff cost, how does a UPB slave switch work, what is plenum rated cable... on and on. This is the best place to learn about this stuff.

When you talk about the can of worms with computer based systems I'm not quite sure what you mean, particularity since you are looking at an elk.

I think that most of the people here have systems that have a hardware controller AND a PC. I think that is a great combination. The controller does all the low level 'stuff' and exposes an interface to the lighting, security, HVAC and other I/O. The PC links together more complex interactions, networking, audio/visual control, web/sms interfaces, and touch screen interfaces. Some people split it differently but that is a general layout.

If you are a DIY guy the Elk+CQC/Homeseer would be a great option. I use a HomeVision system+CADDX security+CQC and find it works very nicely.

Not sure why you crossed off ZWave as the two main powerline protocols that people seem to like are ZWave and UPB. I'm a UPB guy, like it a lot. There are many people who don't have much good to say about X10 and Insteon. Those with a bit more cash tend to like the hardwired solutions.

I have a Brultech 1240 and it works great. A friend of mine has a TED and it seems ok too thought it only has 2 channels. I'd go brultech all the way.

 

[AceCannon]

Well... finally purchased my first home and its time to begin thinking about home security. Our home is a 2 story, 3000sq, 3car house, daylight basement with attic and basement access. We have 2 exterior doors + 2 garage doors (double and a single). The first floor has 14 seperate windows to monitor (several in groups).

Do you have access to inside of the walls? Or is the drywall already up?

How much wire do you intend to run? Security, thermostat, video, in-wall audio?

My first priority would be adequate wiring, followed by the specific choices of hardware and technology.

 

[Neurorad]

Patience and persistence is (almost) everything in HA - the other part is money. Even if you buy everything used off ebay, you'll still spend a fortune.

Read the Elk M1 install manual a few times.

Retrofitting hardwired security can be tricky - be patient. Use wireless for those windows and doors that are really hard to wire. Attack each retrofit sensor wire 1 at a time, use cocoontech for help.

Research CQC and HomeSeer for eventual 'total control' of your home.

You'll need the hardware installed before CQC/HS. Start with security - will keep you busy for a while.

Be patient.

UPB Seems to be the cheapest and easiest automated lighting system for most.

If you have to repair drywall and paint, you might as well pull more cables in that room while you're at it. LAN, motion detectors/occupancy sensors, thermostats, flexible conduit, in-ceiling speakers, audio keypads, touchscreens, flood sensors behind toilets and under sinks, security cameras (CCTV vs. IP), distributed video, landscape lighting control, security lights, smoke and CO alarms, garage door control, irrigation control...list is endless.

 

[Steve]

Not sure why you crossed off ZWave as the two main powerline protocols that people seem to like are ZWave and UPB.

I'm sure that was just a typo. As you probably know ZWave is a wireless solution. UPB, Insteon and x10 are the powerline technologies.

 

[cornutt]

Well, I'll throw in for HAI. If you're looking at the Elk M1/CQC, you should also look at the OmniPro II before you decide. There are plusses and minuses either way, but I went with the OPII. You mentioned touch screens, and HAI already has an integrated solution for that, although it's a bit pricey.

How secure can you make the windows? If you can lock them reasonably well, then you can probably cover most of the with a few glass break sensors, with a lot less wiring effort then putting a contact on each window. But if you can't, consider wireless.

 

[whatuusay1]

Whew - Flurry of responses Thank you for the responses. I'll take a stab at answering/clarifying some of the questions.

Dave-X10 - I've heard very good things about the Elk, certainly not saying its a poor system or has any stability issues. I guess what I'm saying is I dont know if the Elk is what would be the best to accomplish my rather loftly goals. It would appear that the best solution is a PC + Hardware approach, I'm glad to see others confirm that idea. I personally would agree. It seems like a good way to provide a standard way to access the security and monitoring componants.

You also mentioned "I will. Nothing works as well as a big processor with lots of memory. I use a Home Automation Computer... and wouldn't do it any other way." Are you using a hardware interface in addition to your beefy automation server? What software setup are you using? Features / capabilities? pics?

Hucker - The can of worms I didnt want to open are people who rely on pc's for security functions, which generally leads to arguements on pc stability vs hardware. I personally think i would prefer to leave security features up to specialized hardware and allow the pc to interface into those functions - idealy via TCP/IP (wired ethernet).

I havent really crossed off Z-wave, I originally got on this track by following the MiCasa Vera project which seems fairly rough around the edges. The forums are littered with small but dealbreaking problems (resetting the zwaze controlers, lockups, time sync problems, as well as a very early scripting technology. I would write off Vera but its one of the few Zwave controllers to support the Schlage locks which I would love to have (confirmation of locked doors). Are there better options I should be concidering? I know the schlage locks out today dont actually move the deadbolt so they may not really be what I'm looking for. I'm looking at full out rf access control locks on the doors... how crazy is that?

AceCannon - I have open attic access to the 2nd floor, the basement is unfininshed and spans the length of the entire first floor. The house is finished otherwise, Its 3yrs old. I'm comfortable running wire through walls. I've allready run upwards of 24 cat5e & 12RG6 to the upstairs bedrooms for Gig network and media distribution purposes. I'm really not sure how much I plan on running but I think once I get started I wont be able to stop (maybe the budget will take care of that). I can see myself wanting ocupancy sensors as well as temp monitors in each room, water sensors in the bathrooms / under sinks / laundry room / water heater / dish washer / refridgerator etc. I'd like to hardwire sensors for entry doors, first floor windows etc. I installed a 5.1 audio setup in the master bedroom (in wall / ceiling speakers) and will likely install another 5.1 setup in the livingroom (also inwall/ceiling). I dont really have a desire for whole house audio at this time. I could see them useful in announcements etc.

Cornutt - I'm looking into 'high strength security windows' like they use with hurricanes. The windows are on the ground level (kicking height) so I think it might be worth the cost to make sure they're not 'easy' to kick in. I've alleady installed window blinds in all windows and doors to prevent casual viewing into the home (out of sight out of mind). A lot of the first floor windows do not open - maybe half are full length windows (62" tall). I figured I could put a glassbreak senson in the middle of several of them to provide coverage. The main livingroom is 18x12 with multiple windows on 2 sides - would a single glassbreak handle the windows in that space?

Thanks again for the insight and thoughts!

 

[oberkc]

Given your leanings towards the Elk security system, I am surprised by the lack of mention of the ISY-99 controller. Though outside my direct experience, the ISY-99 allows one to integrate insteon (and X-10) with your elk security system. It also allows a pretty robust ability to control and manage your lighting system.

While I don't have experience with UPB or Z-wave (I have no doubt they are fine systems), I can tell you that my insteon system is working reasonably well. I also believe that the other two protocols tend to have more expensive hardware (which can start to be significant in my mind).

Summary:

a. look at the ISY-99
b. don't discount insteon based on your X-10 experience.

 

[whatuusay1]

oberkc - I'll def take a look at the ISY-99, I'm still fairly new to the ELK (and security/ha in general) so I'm not aware of all of the interface options. If there are addons or componants please make recommendations. The insteon stuff is fairly reasonable in price - perhaps use that for more general automation (closet lights etc)? What do you mean by 'reasonably well' ? I've read many posts where Insteon has been problematic (although it seems somewhat hit or miss). Regardless of the technology I'm going to utilize amost all wire in outlets (to improve WAF).

Most of the lighting in the house is CFL, which I know needs to be concidered with lighting loads. My CFL's are generic non dimable units. I'd like to move to LED where dimable features would be nice, although there's no way I can justify the current LED costs. I'm hoping in another year they'll be a bit more reasonable.

 

[oberkc]

Oh my. I posted a long reply, and don't see it. I must have pressed a wrong button. I'll write a summary in hopes that the original one shows up soon.

What do you mean by 'reasonably well' ?

I have been able to achieve near 100% success with programmed events. These rely on communication between the ISY and various module/switches. Based on tools provided as part of the ISY, I had good success identifying and eliminating communication problems.

Communication between the various modules is less than 100% but still well into the mid-90% or greater. Furthermore, one can mitigate this problem with the ISY and I have had some success. Most of my problems are associated with manually-triggered events. Fortunately, we now go for days without touching a light switch.

I use CFL and LED bulbs, but mostly outside. Indoors, I like to control dimming and am not yet satisfied with these bulbs in dimmed conditions. An unspoken benefit to systems like insteon is that you can control the ramp rates for turning on. I believe this has resulted in much longer life for my incadescents.

I am unsure of the extent of your automation dreams, but, if you are like me, they will grow with time. However, if they are very basic, you may be better off with less expensive solutions.

In an effort to be up front, I have not used anything other than insteon and X-10. I cannot give direct comparison for the other protocols. I also suggest you check out the forum at Universal Devices. There is much there, including integration of Elk and Insteon.

Enjoy!

 

[cornutt]

I figured I could put a glassbreak senson in the middle of several of them to provide coverage. The main livingroom is 18x12 with multiple windows on 2 sides - would a single glassbreak handle the windows in that space?

I think so. I've seen plenty of glass breaks that can cover that range, provided that it has a line-of-sight view of the window. If you have heavy drapes, it might be marginal, though. In that case, you may need two, one for each side of the room.