Stupid Newbie needs UPB Lighting help

[10Seconds]

Ok, so I am trying to get me UPB lighting set up and its my first time and I am confused on a few issues. I am using for the moment all HAI devices since my system is an Omni Pro II.

I have some of the 600w dimmers, some room scene switches, and an 8 button "house" switch.

My question is, does every load need its own switch first and then I can add the room or house control switches?

For example in the kitchen, I have 3 switches, for the main can lights, the under cabinet lights, and the over cabinet lights. Can I plug the room controller in spot 1 and then put reg. switches in 2 and 3?

I guess I am a bit confused.

Also, should I wire in all the devices before hooking up the PIM to my OP2?

Can I program my devices through a generic USB PIM from ebay instead of the HAI one? Is it ok to leave the OP2 connected or should I unconnect it when programing (as if I was using the HAI's PIM to program)

If I can't use a USB PIM, can I use a DB9 to USB cord on my HAI PIM? I guess I would need a DB9 gender changer too.

Am I the only one who thinks that use of a serial cable is seriously outdated?

If the install takes me 2 nights, is it ok to use the switches before programing them, or will they even work before programming?

 

[Steve]

My question is, does every load need its own switch first and then I can add the room or house control switches?

For example in the kitchen, I have 3 switches, for the main can lights, the under cabinet lights, and the over cabinet lights. Can I plug the room controller in spot 1 and then put reg. switches in 2 and 3?

You need to have a separate switch for each load you want to connect. I'm assuming by room controller you mean the 6 or 8 button keypads? Those mainly just let you control other switches from that one keypad. You can program each button to control one or more switches to create a 'scene', but each load you want to control needs to have its own switch or module.

Also, should I wire in all the devices before hooking up the PIM to my OP2?

Doesn't matter

Can I program my devices through a generic USB PIM from ebay instead of the HAI one? Is it ok to leave the OP2 connected or should I unconnect it when programing (as if I was using the HAI's PIM to program)

Don't know what PIM you are referring to, but many people invest in 2 PIMS, 1 to permanently hook up to controller and second to have on pc or laptop to do programming or go around testing. The one on the controller should be serial and I would get either the HAI or PCS. Since HAI switches are Gen II you should have a Gen II PIM, so don't use SAI. I'm not even awate of any 'generic' PIM, they all pretty much come from HAI, PCS or SAI/Web Mtn.

If I can't use a USB PIM, can I use a DB9 to USB cord on my HAI PIM? I guess I would need a DB9 gender changer too.

USB PIM should be fine for the laptop/pc but I would use serial for controller.

Am I the only one who thinks that use of a serial cable is seriously outdated?

Well, pretty much all the controllers are serial and there is so little data to process that serial just makes sense because it is cheap and reliable.

If the install takes me 2 nights, is it ok to use the switches before programing them, or will they even work before programming?

Sure, take your time. They will work as a standalone switch fine until you program them. You may not like the default ramp rates, etc but that is part of programming.

 

[10Seconds]

You need to have a separate switch for each load you want to connect. I'm assuming by room controller you mean the 6 or 8 button keypads? Those mainly just let you control other switches from that one keypad. You can program each button to control one or more switches to create a 'scene', but each load you want to control needs to have its own switch or module.

So if I have a 3 gang boxs of switches, i have to use 3 switches, I can't use a room controler as a switch? Where can I put these then?

Also, it turns out that the USB PIM's I found were all really simply automated ones, so I guess I am stuck with serial. Will the serial to usb cable mess things up or am I ok?

Thanks for the help.

 

[Steve]

The current HAI multibutton controller switches do not have local load control, they will only control other switches via links. PCS makes a multibutton switch with local load control. In your example you can save a switch on loads 1 and 2 and a PCS keypad with load control on 3. If your problem is you have a 3 gang box and you want all the loads automated PLUS a multibutton keypad in that gang box then you either needs to get a PCS keypad with load control, or you need to use an inline module on one of your loads to free up a switch in the gang box, then you can use that space for an HAI keypad controller. The on/off button on the controller would be programmed to control the inline module.

And I would not mess with USB to Serial on the controller, some adapters don't work right and there is really no good reason to do it for the controller. And as I said, I would not use an SAI PIM on HAI. Use HAI, PCS or Web Mountain (same as SAI) so you have a Gen II PIM.

 

[10Seconds]

My issue is that I have no Serial ports on a PC, so I have to use USB. Any recommendations?

 

[drozwood90]

Get a Serial PCI card.

Multi-port cards can be had for a few hundred. WELL worth the investment,

--Dan

 

[tenholde]

The SAI switches can be configured with a faceplate of up to 8 buttons and it serves as a load controller. There is also a new SAI switch that can control 2 loads, as well as be configured with up to 8 buttons.

tenholde

 

[Event5]

Have you downloaded UPStart yet? If so, here is a link to a sample upstart file I shared several years ago. You do not need a PIM to view this file.

This sample is from a home with 3 to 11 loads per room. Every room has one SAI US240 with top rocker and 4 buttons on the bottom. The US 240 carries a load and gives 3 scenes and an all off for each room. Web Mountain makes a Gen II version of the US 240. See the switch here.

When you open the file you can look at each room and imagine what the switch plate will look like. Once you have the scenes set you do not have to touch the other switches as you enter or leave the room. But if you want you can adjust any load as desired.

It is important to follow the steps listed to download the file, other wise it will not open as an UPStart file.

It sounds like this is what you are trying to do.

Dave

 

[Steve]

My issue is that I have no Serial ports on a PC, so I have to use USB. Any recommendations?

I think you are confused

You said:

I am using for the moment all HAI devices since my system is an Omni Pro II.

and then:

If I can't use a USB PIM, can I use a DB9 to USB cord on my HAI PIM? I guess I would need a DB9 gender changer too.

and I said:

USB PIM should be fine for the laptop/pc but I would use serial for controller.

Like I recommended, get 2 PIMs, 1 for pc and 1 for controller, you will be much happier. If that is not an option then you can get a serial board for your pc as mentioned. But I would use a serial PIM on the controller.

 

[10Seconds]

Ok, so how are you guys adding the room controllers then when there is no space in the box. Are you switching to larger boxes somehow? Or Putting the the room controllers somewhere else? And if so, how are you connecting them?

 

[cornutt]

Ok, so how are you guys adding the room controllers then when there is no space in the box. Are you switching to larger boxes somehow? Or Putting the the room controllers somewhere else? And if so, how are you connecting them?

One strategy is to look for places where you have a 3-way (or more) switch that you can replace. If you are putting in a scene switch, and you have the device that is controlled by that 3-way on a UPB switch, you may find that you don't need the 3-way switch at that location anymore.

 

[nightwalker]

In a few places that I had 2 gang boxes, I use a SA dual load switch and a HAI house controller instead of two single switches.

 

[Frunple]

I think you first need to understand that any switch can control any other switch. So you can have a switch in the kitchen turn on a light in the living room. Once you understand this (will take some time, it can be odd to comprehend at first) you will understand that you can put the room controllers any where you want them. All they need is power. So if you have a regular wall outlet somewhere, you can (or have an electrician) run a wire from the outlet straight up the wall and put the controller there. The controller can then be used to turn on the kitchen cans to 60%, the under cabs to 80% and any other lights to whatever level you desire by pushing just one button on the controller. It's done by the "links" that were mentioned. Once you understand a link you will be more comfortable.
I have two over bed lights, one on my side and one on her side, they are both controlled by sai switches that can be reached from laying in bed (just outside the bedpost actually), I then use the bottom rocker of both of these switches to also turn off the main bedroom light. So if we both get in bed and forget to turn off the light, either of us can simply turn off our over bed light and the main will turn off. This is done by a link.

 

[10Seconds]

I think you first need to understand that any switch can control any other switch. So you can have a switch in the kitchen turn on a light in the living room. Once you understand this (will take some time, it can be odd to comprehend at first) you will understand that you can put the room controllers any where you want them. All they need is power. So if you have a regular wall outlet somewhere, you can (or have an electrician) run a wire from the outlet straight up the wall and put the controller there. The controller can then be used to turn on the kitchen cans to 60%, the under cabs to 80% and any other lights to whatever level you desire by pushing just one button on the controller. It's done by the "links" that were mentioned. Once you understand a link you will be more comfortable.
I have two over bed lights, one on my side and one on her side, they are both controlled by sai switches that can be reached from laying in bed (just outside the bedpost actually), I then use the bottom rocker of both of these switches to also turn off the main bedroom light. So if we both get in bed and forget to turn off the light, either of us can simply turn off our over bed light and the main will turn off. This is done by a link.

Thank you, this make sense. I am trying to install the dimmers right now, but dang, some of these are hard to figure out, the 3- and 4-way ones esp.

 

[Frunple]

Thank you, this make sense. I am trying to install the dimmers right now, but dang, some of these are hard to figure out, the 3- and 4-way ones esp.

Well keep in mind there really is no 3 or more way wiring. You basically just power each switch (whether a main or slave switch) then you have a "traveler" (not really) connecting the slave to the main. So all you do in each box is continually run your hot and common through to the next box as if they were outlets. It's actually way easier than normal 3 way wiring.