Systems Integration Advise needed

[kmitchell]

Hello everyone,

I'm in the process of planning a major remodel to our house and want to get some advise from any systems integrators out there. I would like to minimize the amount of "stuff" on the walls, particularly in the bedrooms, but I would also like access to a number of systems from those rooms.

Here's what I want to have in each room:

- Telephone
- Intercom
- Whole House Audio (and Video if possible)
- Lighting Control (touchscreen)
- HVAC Control (touchscreen)
- Security System Control (touchscreen)


So here's what I'm thinking:

Option #1:

- Integrate Telephone and Intercom into one system.
- Control Whole House AV from the touchscreen that is being used for lighting, HVAC, and security control .

Option #2:

- Have standalone telephone
- Integrate Intercom with Whole House AV
- Touchscreen control of lighting, HVAC, and security

Option #3:

- Have standalone telephone
- Have standalone intercom
- Integrate Whole House AV with touchscreen controls

Option #4:

- Have standalone telephone
- Integrate intercom, whole house AV, and touchscreen controls

Option #5:

- Integrate telephone, intercom, whole house AV, and touchscreen controls


Option #4 or #5 is most attractive since it has the minimum amount of stuff on the walls but Option #1 isn't too bad since the phone/intercom system would probably be on a desk or night stand and the rest would be mounted to the wall or have a mobile controller.

Everything can be hardwired as the house will be taken to the studs and in some cases further due to an earthquake retrofit of the foundation.

Any input or guidance would be much appreciated.

Thanks,
Ken

 

[IVB]

I think that once you have touchscreen control over your house in a central location (not everywhere, just 1-2 touchscreens), you'll wonder how you lived without.

 

[sic0048]

I think you are going to find that many of the intetrcom systems out there really won't integrate into a bigger system. There are some systems (like the Russound Compoint) that "integrate" into the whole house audio system - but generally still require separate controls on the wall just for the intercom. So while the two may work together, there are still two sets of controls.

Therefore I am not sure that option 4&5 are actually available. Perhaps if you go with a system like Crestron, but probably not through any other vendors.

I think option 1 will give you want you want with the largest number of options when it comes to equipment and control systems. I think if you use some sort of IP based phone system you can easily integrate phone and intercom into a really nice PBX style setup.

As far as the rest (a/v, lighting, securty, HVAC, etc) - that can certainly be controlled by a home automation package that you could interact with via a number of different interfaces. It could be a touchscreen in every room. But that isn't the only option. But these systems must be planned carefully and you might be surprised how quickly the costs add up. So having a budget in mind will help with the planning. It will help with questions like - can we put a touch screen in every room when they cost $800-$2500 each, etc, etc, etc.

 

[kmitchell]

Thanks guys for the input. I'm definitely planning for at least a touchscreen in the kitchen and one in the master bedroom but I'm also considering one for each bedroom (3+master) and the front entry although those may be smaller screens than the kitchen and master. I would like the touchscreen in the kitchen to be installed in place of a state-of-the-art 1990 M&S Master Intercom Console which is why I've been looking at ways to integrate the intercom into a touchscreen system.

I've been using HomeSeer for almost 10 years now so I'll probably use HSTouch since I've already got a significant amount of custom code developed for HS to control HVAC, Irrigation, etc.

I've looked at several VoIP phone/intercom systems and I'm leaning towards that as a standalone solution except for possibly routing HS event announcements through the intercom. The part that I still wrestle with is whether or not to try to use the whole house audio speakers in each room for the intercom system or just keep them separate and live with the little speaker in the intercom control panel.

Even if I decide not to put touchscreens in all the bedrooms right now I'll almost certainly allocate the space in the wall and install conduit so I have the option of installing them later.

Keep the input coming, particularly if someone could help me visualize what a phone/intercom master console AND a 15" touchscreen would look like in a kitchen.

Thanks,
Ken

 

[sic0048]

I assume HS has text-to-speach capabilities. If so, then I think you'll find you can use it to speak commands/annoucements through the whole house audio system. Just make sure whatever you get has "paging" ability. There will be an page input that you simply connect the HS speaker output to. Of course you might build in some logic to determine which zones get turned on for the annoucement, but you get the idea.

For true intercom with two way speaking ability - I think the IP phone solution is a great place to look. I don't know, maybe you can even tie HS into the phone system and make annoucements that way. If you go this route, then there is no "master intercom" station - every phone could be the same and initiate or receive intercom calls. There would be a phone controller, but that could be hidden away in the wiring closet with the HS server and other equipment.

For a kitchen touchscreen I would recommend that you consider other options that just the in-wall stationary screen. The reason is that you have a lot more flexability in where you place the screen because normally an in-wall screen isn't going to fit anywhere that you have counters and cabinets. You need a "clean wall" to place it in.

I have a touch screen in my kitchen and actually have it mounted on a swing arm so you can change the actual location a little. You can access the screen from two sides of a counter, so the arm allows you to move it depending on which side you are on. For our kitchen, the only wall space we could mount a touchscreen in wouldn't be as convienent as the counter location where we have it mounted.

I am in the process of completing a system at my parents house and we ended up with a touchscreen simply sitting on the counter on the supplied stand. Again, it allows a person to move the screen a little to see it better and the location is better because it is able to sit on a counter. Actually, since my parents have a very open floor plan, there really isn't a wall that we could mount a touch screen in anywhere in (or even close to) the kitchen.

Here is a picture of my set up (keep in mind that this picture was taken right after installation and before I had customized my screens to match the resolution of the touchscreen). I don't have any pictures of my parent's set up yet, but can probably get some within a couple weeks.

 

[mustangcoupe]

what screen is that Brian? that looks Great!

 

[sic0048]

what screen is that Brian? that looks Great!

It's actually a used 15" ELO screen that I got off EBay. It's a nice screen, but the resolution is only 800x600. Currently in both my set up and my parents set up, we use HP t5720 thin clients to drive the touchscreens. We both use CQC and the thin clients run XPe which allows us to install normal programs (like CQC, and the touchscreen drivers) on it. It allows for a low power, silent, small form solution to drive the screen. Originally I was driving my screen with my CQC server and sending the VGA and serial lines over a cat5e line using a Cybex Longview extender, but the colors were washed out. Switching to the thin client made a 1000% difference in screen image. (Actually the above picture was taken back when I was using the extender rather than the thin client - so if the colors look a little washed out it's because they were).

I really like my parents new screen. It is a 3M Microtouch M150 with a 1024x768 resolution which adds just enough extra screen space to be really nice. It also has a nice sturdy adjustable stand, so we didn't wall mount their screen. It just sits on the counter. Of course it was more money that my screen

Here is a stock image of the 3M screen.

 

[sic0048]

Here is a link to Sacedog's wall mounted touchscreen in his kitchen. Another great looking installation! The in-wall installations give a "cleaner" look IMHO, but sometime you just cannot put them in the most logical location - especially in the kitchen with all the cabinets.

 

[kmitchell]

Hi Brian,

Thanks for all your input. I really appreciate it. I'm now splitting my work into a couple of areas. I'll be researching telephone/intercom systems and also looking at how the other systems will integrate with HS. Yes, HS has a TTS but I haven't been using up until recently. My wife doesn't particularly like the techno voices so I may end up having her create some pre-recorded .WAV files and just routing and playing those via events. I actually took a good look at the Russound Compoint last night and it looks like a nice way to integrate an intercom with whole house audio so I'm keeping that in mind as well if I don't find a telephone/intercom solution that I like. With everyone in the family having cell phones now it isn't clear how much $$ I should spend on a home phone system unless I can take advantage of it being an intercom (and possibly a voice-control) system as well.

Thanks for the link to Sacedog's installation. I've got plenty of wall space for an in-wall installation but I've also been looking at something mounted on an arm so it can be rotated for better viewing. Have you seen the Dell Studio One 19? It's a All-In-One PC with a 19" touchscreen. It looks interesting but I don't know if it's VESA mountable or not. Also, the area where it would be mounted is a walkway so it may not be a good idea to have it sticking out from the wall. Here's pic of the existing M&S intercom console that will be replaced with a touchscreen. As you can see it will also need to double as a digital picture frame. Notice the little thermometer on the right. That's since been replaced with a 1-wire temp sensor in the kitchen but since one of the kids made the thermometer in school my wife still keeps it there.

Once again, thanks for all your input.

Ken

 

[beelzerob]

We actually made room and power available for a touchscreen when we were planning the kitchen. The wife *loves* the touchscreen there. And it's currently our only source for TTS announcements.

 

[sic0048]

Regarding the TTS voice engine. That is usually defined by the OS. Windows XP has some very basic "computer sounding" voices. Vista has some much more realistic voices. You can also generally buy third party voices to suppliment what came with the OS (for either XP or Vista). It's only money

 

[Rustytek]

The GE Smartcom system integrates audio and intercom into a single keypad... I was testing/playing with it for a few minutes at a Parade of Homes showcase house before I was caught and it worked great. There is an interface to a "Smart commander hub" for control but I cannot find any documentation on it. It does solve the single audio/intercom problem though.

 

[Neurorad]

Anyone use their touchscreens for distributed video (TV), as well as control?

I also have an ancient M&S intercom (currently only useful for doorbell ringing) that I'm going to replace.

There is also an undercabinet TV in the kitchen, which I need to take into consideration.

 

[sic0048]

Anyone use their touchscreens for distributed video (TV), as well as control?

This can easily be done if you use something like SageTV and have the touchscreen driven by a fast enough computer to handle the SageTV requirements. Sage would also give you an easy way to play DVDs and other videos as well on the touch screen. The only problem I can see is that the SageTV program will end up running in a separate screen on top of the normal interface. So you would have to close out the Sage screen to get back to the interface (or alt-tab, etc). So it may not be as seemless as one might hope for.

 

[kmitchell]

The GE Smartcom system integrates audio and intercom into a single keypad... I was testing/playing with it for a few minutes at a Parade of Homes showcase house before I was caught and it worked great. There is an interface to a "Smart commander hub" for control but I cannot find any documentation on it. It does solve the single audio/intercom problem though.

Thanks Rustytek for the info. That system looks a lot like what I'm looking for, particularly now that I'm leaning away from a full blown PBX telephone system. The only thing that worries me about going with a system like this that's sold by an alarm company is being able to connect it into my automation system. It took me about 2 minutes to find the serial port protocol for the Russound CAV6.6 but I've been searching for 30 minutes and I can't figure out if this system can be connected to a computer and automated. It appears that unless you're an installer you can't get much information from GE but I'll keep searching.

Thanks again,
Ken