Test INSTEON now or wait?

[Steve]

Be VERY careful with the ICON dimmers! They are only rated at 300W to start and they derate 50W for each adjacent dimmer. If I recall, you have several multigang locations, so the switch would derate to 250W or even 200W for 3 in a row. That means you can have a max of 2 75W bulbs on a single dimmer. And I'm not sure about the Icons in particular, but I know most dimmers get very warm or even hot anywhere near their ratings. I have had 600W dimmers get very warm driving a 450W (6x75) load. So just be careful in designing because the Icons are not very powerful at all...

 

[Mike]

I was wondering if the Icon idea became too popular which might be why some of the prices went up (all icon gear seems to have risen, although switchlinc relays did as well).

I used Icon's just for places where I did not consider it 'worth' it to use full switchlincs. For the $20 they were initially, it was something worth doing to get full automation even in areas where it was not a priority.

I don't like the looks of the Icon's so never considered mixing them inside the house.

 

[elcano]

of course the cheap HAL UPB switches are still a viable option. They are priced at $35 each, so its not a huge step up from the ICONS. It all just depends on the budget.

Where did you see it? I believed that all UPB offering at that price were companion/slave, not stand-alone ones.

 

[Steve]

of course the cheap HAL UPB switches are still a viable option. They are priced at $35 each, so its not a huge step up from the ICONS. It all just depends on the budget.

Where did you see it? I believed that all UPB offering at that price were companion/slave, not stand-alone ones.

They are essentially the SAI 1130 switch branded as HAL. Some of the features may be crippled, I'm not sure. They are available in Fry's Brick & Mortar stores only as far as I know.

 

[Digger]

I have brand new ICON Dimmer in the box. I just opened it and it is marked 600 W load not 300 W.

The documentation doesnt have any rating.

The Website says 300 W. The ICON Relays have bounced around between 300 W and 400 W from what I remember the past few months (depending where you looked).

Someone could install this and overload it and POSSIBLY have a fire (putting a 600 W load on a 300 W device).

Smarthome Mike,

You might want to check with someone at your company who is responsible for this. Apparently there are labeling problems or incorrect information on the website (since they dont match).

Box and Website 2876DB (300 W on website for the ICON)

Device ICON 2876D (600W on label).

I wont install it incase you want it back as proof.

And Guys I am NOT trying to BASH Smarthome. In my career I have seen lots of things. This is a simple oversight by someone. Once things settle down the Insteon could be a great product line.

 

[Bruce L]

Wow wish I had a Fry's local here, I have tried x10, zwave and UPB and UPB beats them all for flexability and reliablility. At $35 I could add automation that I can't justify with regular UPB pricing. Are the faceplate only white or available in other colors ?

 

[Mike]

I have brand new ICON Dimmer in the box. I just opened it and it is marked 600 W load not 300 W.

The documentation doesnt have any rating.

The Website says 300 W. The ICON Relays have bounced around between 300 W and 400 W from what I remember the past few months (depending where you looked).

Someone could install this and overload it and POSSIBLY have a fire (putting a 600 W load on a 300 W device).

As a former Compliance Engineer for Underwriters Laboratories if we had Listed these products we would have made sure that there were accurate and consistant ratings.

Smarthome Mike,

You might want to check with someone at your company who is responsible for this. Apparently there are labeling problems or incorrect information on the website (since they dont match).

Box and Website 2876DB (300 W on website for the ICON)

Device ICON 2876D (600W on label).

I wont install it incase you want it back as proof.

And Guys I am NOT trying to BASH Smarthome. In my career I have seen lots of things. This is a simple oversight by someone. Once things settle down the Insteon could be a great product line.

Now, if the load is really 600 and this is part of the reason for the price increases, then I think (and I think everyone will agree) that it makes more sense, and is very reasonable.

The load rating prevented me from using a full switchlinc relay in the basement because there were too many flourescents. Now a 1000 watt relay switch would solve this, but I'm not sure how many people have the same issue.

 

[Digger]

I need a 1000 W relay switch also. Might even find a use for 2 or 3 of them. For that I would pay $60 maybe. If they were $40 I would get more than one for sure.

BTW the Dimmer is from the $19.99 days I just never got around to install it. I am running close to 300 W on another dimmer from the same time period and it gets slightly warm to the touch which is pefectly NORMAL.

I also agree if they raised the rating to 600 W they could and should charge more. And it probably doenst make sense from a business standpoint to have a 300 W and a 600 W and a 1000 W dimmer. Not unless they sell millions I guess.

 

[TCassio]

The issue of the wattage rating for the Icon dimmers was covered in a prior thread. Smarthome would not state specifically what the rating was. It was hinted at that the rating was what it is marked. Besides, they could not sell a miss marked electrical device, I don't think UL would approve that.

 

[Digger]

TCassio,

These are not UL Listed. But you are correct that UL would not allow a mismarked device (Unless it err'ed on the side of caution like a 600 W labeled as 300 W by accident).

The switches are actually a great concept and a decent (if not better) design. They just need to get it all together.

The ones that work do work well....... the others well......

 

[mtwalsh367]

Just thought I'd chime in on Insteon and the M1 since I have been using this combination for 9+ months and have recently installed Powerhome as well. Overall I would say that I am very pleased with my installation of about 20 Insteon deveices which includes one keypadlinc. Being an early adopter I expected some hassles and overall I have not experienced too many problems. I did have one bad switch after 4 months and I did swap out my keypadlinc for the newer firmware version (smarthome took care of both of these with no charge). The other issue has been the need for a delay between Insteon commands to keep the reliability up when turning things on/off from the M1. Adding a 2 second delay between commands takes care of this problem although its kind of a pain to add this delay in the current M1 software.

With the recent addition of Powerhome to my system I feel that my Insteon world just become much simpler and my system options are greatly expanded. Managing Insteon links and groups is now much much much much much easier and since you can now define more than one group for the Insteon Powerlinc Controller the M1 can control these groups. I am in the process of replacing my use of individual lighting commands in the M1 with Insteon groups and this should end the need to use delays since I won't be stringing multiple lighting commands together. I would still like to see Elk add a delay parameter so we can more easily add a delay between lighting commands if needed.

Smarthome continues to roll out new Insteon devices and their software is due to ship soon. I see these as positive signs and I hope this continues. I would like to see a better product and issue resolution roadmap from Smarthome and would also encourage them to offer better customer support. Hopefullly when you ask me about Insteon after another year goes by I will have the same positive impression.

 

[upstatemike]

I believe the upcoming PowerHome support for the M1 will close the loop for you and make your M1/Insteon integration truly seemless. It will just keep getting better for you from here!

 

[Digger]

I woudl agree that once Powerhome is able to link to the M1 then I will feel much much better about the setup of the Insteon devices. I am actually holding off sending back the 4 that wont link at all until I get Powerhome just to see if that will work. I will probably get Powerhome within a few weeks. I just cant find any instructions out there and I dont have a lot of time for it now.

On a more positive note once I have an Insteon device working it seems fine with only 1 dying and that was a fluke (static discharge). The noise problems cant be blamed on Insteon.

I have about 36 switches total in my house. I would say that about 20 of them will be Insteon in the end. If they come out with some neat celing fan controllers then maybe another 4 of those. A 1000 W relay and about 3 of those so I am not saying I hate the product its just frustrating at the moment.

 

[Mike]

I was wondering about fan controllers, since they have so many options lately. If it could control the fan, light, up-light and the like it would be neat. Not sure what this would look like and there are remotes for this kind of thing but it would be nice... a keypadlink maybe?

I have been meaning to check out powerhome, especially since I just pulled the bad light switch from the bedroom and need to relink keypads and controllers now.

 

[upstatemike]

Don't forget PowerHome has a free trial. You can download it and try it out without risk. Digger- I think you will find the learning curve for the Insteon stuff is pretty easy (and I am not somebody who likes to deal with learning curves of any sort.) I expect a single evening should find you managing your Insteon switches from PowerHome with no problem.