The End is Near for HomeSeer 1.7x
- Thread starter BraveSirRobbin
- Start date
Rupp
Senior Member
BSR,BraveSirRobbin said:Again, my last comment to this thread.
It's NOT about "my system has been up for x days, y minutes, and can cure world hunger and look like Robin Meade while doing it (did I just say that...? )!
It's about proven performance and stability over time. This just flat out takes time (as I mentioned previously).
I also think it's very sad that stability performance seems to be measured in days (let alone minutes). System stability should be measured in WEEKS!
Again, we all have our time lines, but I think you will have to search pretty far for someone that disagrees with this opinion (err, the stability one, not the Robin Meade one)!
It isn't hard to achieve, all it takes is time! During that time, support your known product that has already reached this level of greatness!
Come on now. What product exists today that does what HomeSeer does that is being added to daily buy plugin authors that you can leave up for weeks. I haven't added anything new in a while but MS updates and new plugins cause me to have to shut down and restart to try out new plugins. The fingerprint plugin is the latest plugin I'm dieing to try but I'm waiting on an extension cable. If you want something that you startup and leave alone you need to get an old calculator that can't be upgraded and does nothing new.
BraveSirRobbin
Moderator
No that's a good point Rupp and I should have restated to something like "your system up unless you deliberately take it down".
The whole point is proven stability. I am actually giving HomeSeer a great compliment on a great proven product.
FWIW, my system is up for many, many weeks at a time unless I bring it down. Lately it was for MainLobby upgrades and didn't even have anything to do with HomeSeer...
Gotta exit this thread as I already stated that the above one would be my last response !
The whole point is proven stability. I am actually giving HomeSeer a great compliment on a great proven product.
FWIW, my system is up for many, many weeks at a time unless I bring it down. Lately it was for MainLobby upgrades and didn't even have anything to do with HomeSeer...
Gotta exit this thread as I already stated that the above one would be my last response
!This thread has been good reading. And to think that I was even considering HS2 as an option after hearing about the new achieved stability. So it surfaces that the technical problems are just the point of the iceberg for HS licensees (or should I say... soon to be unlicensees? ).
Back in the '90s I promised myself not to buy another Apple product after Steve Jobs dropped the Newton and rejected all approaches to sell the product to other companies. I held my promise. So no, there will never be an iPod in my Coocon.
So you know what to do. As said above, time will say.
).Back in the '90s I promised myself not to buy another Apple product after Steve Jobs dropped the Newton and rejected all approaches to sell the product to other companies. I held my promise. So no, there will never be an iPod in my Coocon.
So you know what to do. As said above, time will say.
This is probably getting a bit off on a tangent, but I can personally vouch for the usefulness of continuing to provide old released binaries, source and updates on a fairly large project. Granted, it is an open source project I'm involved with (FreeBSD.org) rather than a commercial operation like HST, but I'd think that if we can do it on a volunteer basis with no major hassles then a commercial operation could as well. Our old releases are available, but most are no longer "supported".
Yes, we encourage people to update when they run into problems on no-longer-supported releases, but we don't make life difficult by pulling the rug out from underneath them. You can still download FreeBSD 2.0.5 from June 1995. We've had one "old" code line in active maintenence for over 6 years (FreeBSD-4.0, first released in March 2000), and are still doing bug fixes, small feature updates and security fixes.
The reason why we did that has some parallel to the HS1.x vs 2.x situation. We've had two major releases (5.x and 6.x) and several point releases on those later releases since the beginning of 4.x, but the majority of our users were simply not ready to make the jump (and for good reason). We've been burned in the past when we've attempted to force something. People react badly when they're forced to do something on a perfectly fine system when there are usually a million other things they'd rather be doing.
We could have burned a lot of good will with our users by forcing people to move up from 4.x (even though we would have really liked them to) before they were ready. 4.x (now up to 4.11 as of Jan 2005) was stable and a known quantity. People were comfortable with it. Heck, we've got over 40,000 freebsd-4.x machines at work and we're in no hurry to upgrade existing deployed machines that are working perfectly well as-is.
When people are running a stable (albeit "old") release, they will not be happy upgrading until the replacement is just as stable and has demonstrated a track record of being stable for months..
Instead, we let people upgrade their machines when they're ready. It saves a whole lot of heartache all around. End users are usually a really good judge of when the time is right to upgrade.
Yes, we encourage people to update when they run into problems on no-longer-supported releases, but we don't make life difficult by pulling the rug out from underneath them. You can still download FreeBSD 2.0.5 from June 1995. We've had one "old" code line in active maintenence for over 6 years (FreeBSD-4.0, first released in March 2000), and are still doing bug fixes, small feature updates and security fixes.
The reason why we did that has some parallel to the HS1.x vs 2.x situation. We've had two major releases (5.x and 6.x) and several point releases on those later releases since the beginning of 4.x, but the majority of our users were simply not ready to make the jump (and for good reason). We've been burned in the past when we've attempted to force something. People react badly when they're forced to do something on a perfectly fine system when there are usually a million other things they'd rather be doing.
We could have burned a lot of good will with our users by forcing people to move up from 4.x (even though we would have really liked them to) before they were ready. 4.x (now up to 4.11 as of Jan 2005) was stable and a known quantity. People were comfortable with it. Heck, we've got over 40,000 freebsd-4.x machines at work and we're in no hurry to upgrade existing deployed machines that are working perfectly well as-is.
When people are running a stable (albeit "old") release, they will not be happy upgrading until the replacement is just as stable and has demonstrated a track record of being stable for months..
Instead, we let people upgrade their machines when they're ready. It saves a whole lot of heartache all around. End users are usually a really good judge of when the time is right to upgrade.
Skibum
Senior Member
Hey... those are my lines. lolkyham said:
While 2.1.x of Homeseer is vastly better than the piss poor broken product that was originally released it still has many issues. No it does not crash as often as it did, and it does not crash as hard, but I've had many times where the app simply goes cookieputz and stops working as expected. This application is simply not ready for prime time.
Do I like HS 2.1, well yes I do, and I'd really like it to make it off of beta sometime this decade. I've given up trying to make this point on the HS forums, cause no one cares.
The Pod
Active Member
Hey Rupp, This is the main reason I can not switch to HS 2.x (and yes I tried 2.1 a month ago, it ran solid, but HSP didn't work at all for me). HSP no longer works with the Serial version of Way2Call! It has been running perfectly on my HS 1.7 version for almost 2 years now. HSP is a paid plugin! Way2Call modem was a paid for device. It works on 1.7 but not 2.x. You asked whats missing, there it is, black and white. I have put in countless help desk tickets and the only answer I kept getting was "we are waiting for a new driver from Way2Call."Rupp said:
The Pod
Guy Lavoie
Active Member
My Ocelot has been running for roughly 6.5 straight years now. I'm not going to bother with weeks...BraveSirRobbin said:
I'm gathering from the last couple of posts that the HomeSeer 1.7 license literally expires after Dec this year? To continue using it will constitute illegal use? I'm sure glad I didn't go with that kind of product.
I hope that statement isn't true, we all know that DRM, copyright protection schemes, only affect the HONEST people, the ones who paid a lot of money, not the copyright infringers. On top of that, this is only going to force these people to start working on cracking the new version of Homeseer.Rupp said:
roussell
Active Member
Not to turn this into an uptime war (rather to proclaim my "calculator's" stability B) )- until a power failure last week (while on vacation none-the-less); my Debian Linux/MisterHouse box had been up non-stop almost 2 years. Even my Window$ 2K3/HouseBot server had been up about 7 months. Stability with PC's is attainable, and it sounds like most people have it with HS 1.7.x and few have it with HS 2.1.x.
Perhaps this is the time for those of you abandoned by HST to investigate other options, I'm sure CQC, or CeBotics would love to have you as customers, and you're always welcome in the MisterHouse camp.
Terry
Rupp
Senior Member
Guy,Guy Lavoie said:My Ocelot has been running for roughly 6.5 straight years now. I'm not going to bother with weeks...BraveSirRobbin said:
I'm gathering from the last couple of posts that the HomeSeer 1.7 license literally expires after Dec this year? To continue using it will constitute illegal use? I'm sure glad I didn't go with that kind of product.
That is not a true statement. HS 1.7 license will be good for as long as you use it. Please state facts.
Rupp
Senior Member
So you do not have power outages that outlast your UPS? That fact alone is amazing.roussell said:
Not to turn this into an uptime war (rather to proclaim my "calculator's" stability B) )- until a power failure last week (while on vacation none-the-less); my Debian Linux/MisterHouse box had been up non-stop almost 2 years. Even my Window$ 2K3/HouseBot server had been up about 7 months. Stability with PC's is attainable, and it sounds like most people have it with HS 1.7.x and few have it with HS 2.1.x.
Perhaps this is the time for those of you abandoned by HST to investigate other options, I'm sure CQC, or CeBotics would love to have you as customers, and you're always welcome in the MisterHouse camp.
Terry
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