Thermostat Settings

[Mike]

I have my HAI RC80B thermostat hooked up to my elk via serial expander, and I can control it from a web page of the ethernet expander (which works).

I have blanked the programming at the thermostat as is recommended.

What happens is that it does not go off in the morning sometimes (which my wife is not happy about). My rules are included below. I did notice in posting this that I have overlapping 5PM rules (one for general 5PM and one for weekend 5PM that does the same thing, which I will remove). The symptom specifically is that the thermostat reads desired 60 in the morning, versus the expected desired 67.

I'm considering rewiring to rule that out in case I somehow had a bad connection or partially damaged it when running it (this seems unlikely though as it works most of the time). Am I missing anything?

I synched the date/time of the pc with the elk so it does not appear to be just a case of wrong date/time on the elk.

WHENEVER THE TIME IS 6:00AM
AND THE DAY(S) OF THE WEEK IS/ARE -MTWTF-
THEN SET Kitchen(Tstat1) HEATING DESIRED TEMP TO 67 DEG.F (19 DEG. C.)
WHENEVER THE TIME IS 8:05AM
AND THE DAY(S) OF THE WEEK IS/ARE -MTWTF-
THEN SET Kitchen(Tstat1) HEATING DESIRED TEMP TO 60 DEG.F (16 DEG. C.)
WHENEVER THE TIME IS 5:00PM
THEN SET Kitchen(Tstat1) HEATING DESIRED TEMP TO 68 DEG.F (20 DEG. C.)
WHENEVER THE TIME IS 9:30PM
THEN SET Kitchen(Tstat1) HEATING DESIRED TEMP TO 60 DEG.F (16 DEG. C.)
WHENEVER THE TIME IS 5:00PM
AND THE DAY(S) OF THE WEEK IS/ARE S-----S
THEN SET Kitchen(Tstat1) HEATING DESIRED TEMP TO 68 DEG.F (20 DEG. C.)
WHENEVER THE TIME IS 12:00PM
AND THE DAY(S) OF THE WEEK IS/ARE S-----S
THEN SET Kitchen(Tstat1) HEATING DESIRED TEMP TO 60 DEG.F (16 DEG. C.)

 

[Spanky]

Mike,
Your rules look OK.

I do not know of any issues with the HAI Thermostat and the M1.

Normal checks like wiring length. Wiring too close to lights, or anything that could induce noise into the wiring to the Thermostat.


Here are some rules to build on to check to make sure the Thermostat is set properly. Use a different unused output for each temperature setting.

WHENEVER THE TIME IS 6:00 AM
AND THE DAY(S) OF THE WEEK IS/ARE -MTWTF-
THEN SET test (Tstat 1) HEATING DESIRED TEMP TO 67 DEGREES
THEN TURN Output 100 ON FOR 2 MINS

WHENEVER Output 100 STATE IS TURNED OFF //The two minutes have run out
AND test (Tstat 1) HEATING DESIRED TEMP IS ANY VALUE OTHER THAN 67 DEGREES //recheck the Thermostat here
THEN SET test (Tstat 1) HEATING DESIRED TEMP TO 67 DEGREES
THEN TURN Output 100 ON FOR 2 MINS //if different than desired reset the output

 

[Mike]

Thanks Spanky. I am assuming that this issue is related to either something I did in installing it, or an 'environmental issue'. It works great most of the time and I am looking forward to finishing tying in core functions to the elk.

Could you clarify what you meant by wiring length (did you mean at the ends?)?

On the second part, if I were to get 4 conductor, shielded cable, would that essentially remove noise as an issue? If so, then I would not have an issue rerunning the wiring to the thermostat (actually, now that I think of it I was considering moving that thermostat, this might be a good opportunity).

 

[token]

I have noticed the exact same thing with my M1 and HAI thermostats.
My problem occours randomly 1 or 2 times a month and it only seems to be in the morning when the rule is supposed to adjust the heat back up. As far as I know the rule to adjust the heat down at night doesn't ever fail.

Aside from reviewing my rules I haven't looked to deep into it yet.
My thermostats were wired with Cat5 by my builder.

Please let me know if you find a good explanation

Good luck,
Token

 

[Spanky]

HAI uses a pseudo RS-232 bus to their Thermostats which is not as noise immune as RS -485. Use as short of a wire run as possible to the Thermostats and avoid anything that generates electrical noise. Shielded cable is always better than unshielded, but normally not required.

 

[Mike]

Thank you. The run now is about 45 feet or so. Like I said I was planning on moving that thermostat, and I think I'll look at shielded cable to prevent further issues when I do so.

Those rule additions should help in the meantime.

Also, I used normal 4 conductor (not cat5 so no twist) which probably doesn't help from a noise perspective.

 

[toymaster458]

I have noticed the same thing with the RCS TR16 RS-232 version and my control box is only 2 feet away.

 

[Mike]

I have noticed the exact same thing with my M1 and HAI thermostats.
My problem occours randomly 1 or 2 times a month and it only seems to be in the morning when the rule is supposed to adjust the heat back up. As far as I know the rule to adjust the heat down at night doesn't ever fail.

It is interesting that you note it not working in the morning, as that was the same symptom I was getting.

The rules Spanky suggested seemed to make it reliable, but then this morning it did not turn the heat up.

The output rule should make sure that the heat get's changed (I'll verify my rules again to make sure I didn't have a typo or the like) as the only other explanation would be if the rule was not triggering (which does not make sense unless I entered it wrong).

Regardless I had started trying to setup emails but did not finish, I will setup some email messages so I can get some debug output as to what is happening (how many attempts it takes using the output logic, etc).

I'll post the results of that test (i.e. worked on Monday, took 3 output attempts on Tuesday, etc). I'll also add that for evening temperature settings as well as if it does happen only in the morning there must be a reason.

 

[AutomatedOutlet]

You might consider setting up modes.

We have an HAI thermostat connected to the system here at the office and it works fine. For details on the programming, you might talk to Jim in our office since he is the one that fixed my programming - hehe

 

[Mike]

Thank you! I'll do that.

 

[Mike]

Ok, on the rule part, it was my mistake. Somehow I set the output to 2 days and 2 minutes. I'll keep an eye on it again.

I have not yet called Jim on the modes (which sounds interesting and possibly a cleaner way to do this).

 

[noshali]

Guys,

Today for the first time my rule did not kick in at 7:00 am for the thermostat. It was working like clock work. I installed the M1XEP last night. Could that be the reason. I am using a TR16 and have it connected through the RS485 data bus.

My rule is very simple.

Whenever the time is 7:00 AM
The set LIVING ROOM (Tstat 1) HEATING DESIRED TEMP TO 71 DEG F. (22 DEG. C.)

I woke up at 7:30 to find the house at 69 and the furnace not running.

regards,

 

[Mike]

I have the ethernet expansion as well but I don't see why that would affect things.

I tried using the output double check Spanky recommended and threw in email messages to track when things got triggered (morning heat rule was hit, morning heat rule extension rule was hit) but I think I am missing some of the emails (but the rules worked).

I haven't spent the time to verify in the morning the rule triggered but sent no email (which is what I believe is happening now). Surprisingly enough the evening email always comes through.

I was hoping to use the emails to track the cases where the extension rule was needed and possibly refine it from their. I have not posted anything yet as you can see above, I don't have clean data yet.

I'll update this as I get more information. I was also planning on moving the thermostat and using shielded wire, but I haven't even gone looking for the shielded wire yet...

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

I know nothing about this thermostat, but is there some kind of feedback signal it could send that would confirm the command was executed? Then write a rule to check for that and if it didn't get it, send it again?

 

[FrankMc]

Hi Guys

Is it a coincedence that its the morning stuff that doesnt seem to work flawlessly ??

Frank