Thoughts and recommendations for a new whole house audio system

ecborgoyn said:
As I read the posts here and read more about Sonos, I'm thinking more about a hybrid solution with a Russound multi-channel amp/controller and a couple of Sonos boxes as sources.  There's only two of us in the house (excluding the dog) so we only need two source channels..  It might mean TWO mobile Apps for controlling the system (Sonos + Russound).  Not ideal.  But one of the HA tools might provide additional integration tools..  eKeypad looks good for my Elk M1G and Russound.  I would need to integrate the Sonos.  But that looks to be a uPnP/DLNA Controller.  This might exist now or down the road.
 
Just some additional thoughts and ramblings..
That is exactly what I do right now (to NuVo). Sonos connect (non amp) is really the only source actively used. CQC turns zones on/off/volume, and although I could build CQC mobile screens for control the native Sonos app is really nice.

The setup works great. If I had confidence in the future longevity of any given system, plus the ability to procure without going via an installer and resultant upcharge, I'd do that.
 
Btw I don't use any nuvo keypads. They came with the unit, at one point I even mounted 2, but I removed them due to fugly and unnecessary.
 
The newer NuVo Player line has the rack-mounted 3-zones-in-a-box P3100 and P3500, which come out a bit cheaper than the equivalent 3x Sonos Connect:Amp units.  They don't have the breadth of online services as Sonos, though.
 
As for the "wireless" aspect of Sonos - you don't have to do anything wireless.  Wire the boxes into Ethernet, stack them on a shelf in the rack and use the same wiring pattern as any other WHA system.
 
jautor said:
The newer NuVo Player line has the rack-mounted 3-zones-in-a-box P3100 and P3500, which come out a bit cheaper than the equivalent 3x Sonos Connect:Amp units.  They don't have the breadth of online services as Sonos, though.
 
yeah i saw that. But alas, we only subscribe to Spotify and Amazon, neither of which are supported. Its not a lack of breadth, they seem to have chased the crappiest ones. Pandora? Napster?  I tried those, pitiful selection. 
 
IVB said:
That is exactly what I do right now (to NuVo). Sonos connect (non amp) is really the only source actively used. CQC turns zones on/off/volume, and although I could build CQC mobile screens for control the native Sonos app is really nice.
 
The more I read hear and from product websites, the hybrid approach is looking better and better.  The one holdout I have the specs & capability of the soon-to-be-release Russound devices.  I'm thinking about the MCA-88X with integral streamer.  But if this is only one channel it wouldn't suffice.  I need two independent source streams.
 
Question on Sonos:  If I would have two Connect devices in my equipment rack with wired network connectivity, would the devices still need to join my WiFi?  I sounds like Sonos has their mesh network for synchronism, but will they use a wired internet (upstream) connection?  I hate the Sonos website...   It's styled primarily for marketing purposes and doesn't readily provide sufficient technical details.  I also hate the Sonos 'ego' problem that's obvious on the website and Forums.  They say:  "Yes we can be controlled via UPnP commands", but we're not going to help you with doing so...  Not DIY or integrator friendly.
 
Another shortcoming of Sonos is that for a modern product, they only support WiFi in the 2.4 GHz band (802.11b/g).  In my house, I push every device that can use the 5GHz band into this less crowded space..  Too many services (WLAN, BT, Zigbee, etc.) in the 2.4GHz space.  AND I'm guessing that Sonos uses the 2.4Ghz band for their mesh network??  I'm also guessing that it's 802.15.4.  But perhaps they have a second radio in the 900MHz space..  Does anyone know?
 
It would SO nice it Sonos would listen to the user community and offer a multichannel rack-mount device.  Could have an optional radio to talk with remote Sonos speakers/streamers.  No need for the mesh network to sync the local channels.  Could even drop the wireless all together and only have wired network.  They could have problems getting WiFi (and their mesh network) to work reliably on the device buried inside of an equipment rack.  And it could also support high fidelity streams.  So they would also capture the audiophile community that want more than a 16 bit 44.1KHz stream (CD quality)...   I could even see a licensing type business arrangement with Company X licensing the Sonos control infrastructure and networking.  FWIW, it looks like the new Russound streamer has 24bit, 96Khz DAC's.  CD audio quality would be OK with me.
 
Anyway, two Sonos Control boxes on a rack shelf might work for me....
 
Any additional thoughts?  Any insight on what the Russound MCA-88X might support?  I did notice that Russound dropped the RF Radios from the latest round of products.  Too bad...  I wanted to keep this option open..
 
Thanks.
 
Its been a few years but i'm pretty sure I don't do wireless, I connect via the wired network. That plan would work. My concern is over the longevity of any new multi-zone amp, esp as I need at least 8 zones, ideally 11. Looks like everyone is getting out of this space. If I had confidence, i'd go that route when my current box up & dies.
 
I know CQC has a native bidirectional driver for it, so the documentation must be somewhere. 
 
We're happy with our HTD system. They're an often overlooked player.
 
While we use the keypads, as they provide per-room minijack input, they are not necessary. We find them useful. No metadata on the keypads, but if a kid has plugged in a phone to listen to something in the family room we don't need UI.
 
I have the preamp (Lync-12) and power amp (HTD-1275) racked up with the switches and whatnot. The web gateway is a small self contained http server which connects to the Cat6 at one end and via a serial connection to the Lync-12 at the other.
 
We use an old Apple Mini for the iTunes collection, and it's directly optically connected to a keypad down there and then to the preamp via Cat6.
 
just checked their site and it looks as if they've positioned some of their offerings for the keypadless lifestyle.
 
I'm still moving ahead (although a bit slowly) with my installation.  Working on installing a 42U rack for sound system, servers, network switch, NAS, UPS, and future HT equipment..  Purchasing supplies, cable, connectors, wall plates, etc.
 
My current plan is still something like a Russound MCA-C5 or MCA-88, or MCA-88X multichannel audio control/amp device.  And a Sonos Connect device for a streaming source.  I don't have the pricing details (or sourcing) for the MCA-88/88X devices.  So I'm a bit unclear which Russound device I'll use.  The integrated 88X looks interesting....
 
But my first purchase will probably be the network components.  Like a QNAP NAS and related support stuff (power, network, etc).
 
It's a slow process (too may other summertime activities)...  I'm looking more seriously at the HTD offerings.  BUT, I was hoping that whatever system I installed had a paging input.  This seems to be missing from the HTD devices.  I wanted to send the audio from my security system as the paging input.  I know all of the issues that this audio wouldn't be battery-backed as the secsys audio is, but it would provide chime and perhaps door-bell type audio in areas that I don't currently have secsys speakers.
 
So if I add a system-wide paging input requirement, what systems should I be looking at??
 
ah, system wide paging. bing! HTD has point to point intercom, but no service for system wide paging w/out using a keypad.
 
what I did was use the security system ( an Elk M1 ) for that. there are a pair of Elk speakers on each floor which do security related announcements.
 
( there is an experimental route via a Mac Mini connected to the HTD to the OnQ doorbell via an Elk Keypad aux input, but it's not always configured. the code on the Mini could do a set of HTTP requests to the HTD ethernet to serial gateway to kick in system wide paging, but I think that's not a turn-key solution.)
 
Thanks for the answer on the HTD paging question.  I'll research your 'back-door' approach.  It sounds like the Mac Mini (or perhaps some other host) commands the HTD system to setup an all-zone paging configuration from one of the normal system audio input channels.  You are correct that I was hoping for a more turn-key solution like Russound has on some devices.  A paging trigger input.  This does use one of the normal system input channels though.
 
I too have an Elk M1 system.  But it doesn't have speakers in every room.  I would like to use the WHA system for additional coverage.  Since the WHA system wouldn't be available during a power outage, I can't depend on it for life-safety announcements though.  I suppose I could backup the WHA with a UPS, but that's getting a bit expensive.
 
I'm still a couple of months away from a system purchase commit.  I'll be installing the zone speaker wiring soon.  But since I won't  have dedicated keypads I can defer the decision on the 'head-end' a bit.  I'll continue my research.  The research/architecture/design is half of the 'fun'...
 
I'm surprised so many are still doing local streaming.  I used to maintain a massive >100GB MP3 library and all the associated playlists, but now between Spotify and Pandora I've deleted all the local content off my phone and just stream everywhere.  Once in a while it gets me if there's no cell service (on a plane or out in the woods).
 
To that end, we absolutely love streaming from our phones with Airplay - the experience is awesome because in your pocket is the ultimate remote control to browse playlists and search but with the audio coming out on the speakers.  We have ~7 ipads (only 4 are current) and 2 iPhones in the house so if we get the itch for music we grab whichever one is closest and fire something up.  I just wish you could stream to more than one like you can from a Mac - then I'd put 8 airplay receivers on a 16-channel/8 room amp and be done.
 
Until then I think Russound is a good option for pro multi-zone systems - but still with an Airplay receiver attached (or chromecast). 
 
Sonos has an awesome app and offering but it's just too friggin' expensive and not compact for rack style installations.  They really need to strip all the extra networking and wifi crap out and make a 6 zone 2U rack unit - I'd buy those up in a heartbeat and chain 'em together.  Without that though, I bet if someone really paid attention to the quality of audio there has to be some loss with the synchronization and multi-zoning happening over wifi/Ethernet.  I can't imagine they can keep the same quality as an all wired internally switched system.
 
Work2Play said:
I'm surprised so many are still doing local streaming.  I used to maintain a massive >100GB MP3 library and all the associated playlists, but now between Spotify and Pandora I've deleted all the local content off my phone and just stream everywhere.  Once in a while it gets me if there's no cell service (on a plane or out in the woods).
 
 
Spotify is a nice idea in theory but I tried that; it doesn't have all the tracks in my collection, and when it does it often doesn't have the same version.  I opted for Amazon as I can upload my tracks if it doesn't have them. I still use spotify, but I use both.  I also love the ability to modify playlists on any device and have it reflected everywhere.
 
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