Two-Way Listen-In Interface - Which board?

[SteveInNorCal]

I'm installing an Elk M1G system and am trying to determine interior speakers configuration. I need your help on best practices.

Exterior Sound. I am mounting an Elk siren in a stainless enclosureon the front of the house high under a gable.

Interior Sound. Our single-floor ranch house is 1,800 sq. ft., so I'm thinking three speakers should be sufficient: one speaker in the Living Room at one end of the house; one in the entry hall by the Keypad in the middle of the house; and one in the hall where three BR doors come together at the far end of the house. The speakers would be about 20 ft. apart.

I like the idea of a listen-in capability to check on things while we are away. So I need your advice on:

1. Should I use plain SP12 speakers and separate microphones or the M1TWSF with built-in microphones?
2. Which listen-in interface board should I use, the unamplified M1TWI or the amplified M1TWA? What are the pros and cons of each? The price difference isn't very high, so I can go either way. Is the amplifier for the speaker output? Or the microphone input?

My wiring installer was originally going to install a Napco system and he put an M120-like 120 dB speaker in the attic which he intended for double-duty -- alert neighbors and scare away intruders. While this would do the job for scaring intruders away, I need interior speakers, too. So, should I...

1. Wire the attic speaker in parallel with the exterior siren on Output 2? Can I combine siren and speaker on Output 2?
2. Pull the M120 out of the attic entirely and depend on the interior speakers?
3. Replace the attic M120 speaker with a siren identical to the exterior siren? (from what I've read, it sounds like I cannot combine the M120 speaker and the exterior stainless siren on Output 2 anyway.)
4. 
   For the interior, should I just use the speakers to alert any intruders and listen-in? Or should I add another sound source such as GE Piezo Screamers run off Output 3 driving a relay (suggested by WorkToPlay 3/7/11 at New Elk M1G Install - Speakers (#9).

Sorry for the long requests, but I'm trying to get this right and your help is invaluable.

Steve

 

[tmbrown97]

Any good reason you don't want to just use the already-installed attic speaker as your exterior siren? With the M1 you have the option of driving a speaker or siren, and I strongly prefer the speaker option... and in the attic, it's not prone to tampering.

Personally, if you want listen-in, I'd go with the amplified M1TWA and the M1TWSF speaker/mic combos - they're perfectly ready to go and mount cleanly in a single gang cutout.

3 speakers should be just fine inside; I do it slightly different - I use 3 keypads in the house and have speakers behind each; in my previous 2500sq ft house, this resulted in a keypad at each end of a t-shaped house (master bedroom, garage entry, front door) - it was great coverage. In my current house (4000sq ft) it takes more like 3 per floor for adequate coverage so I have a couple SP12's to augment.

 

[SteveInNorCal]

Any good reason you don't want to just use the already-installed attic speaker as your exterior siren? With the M1 you have the option of driving a speaker or siren, and I strongly prefer the speaker option... and in the attic, it's not prone to tampering.

Personally, if you want listen-in, I'd go with the amplified M1TWA and the M1TWSF speaker/mic combos - they're perfectly ready to go and mount cleanly in a single gang cutout.

3 speakers should be just fine inside; I do it slightly different - I use 3 keypads in the house and have speakers behind each; in my previous 2500sq ft house, this resulted in a keypad at each end of a t-shaped house (master bedroom, garage entry, front door) - it was great coverage. In my current house (4000sq ft) it takes more like 3 per floor for adequate coverage so I have a couple SP12's to augment.

Thanks, W2P. I'm installing a single keypad at our front door. Rear doors in LR are both sliders and cannot be locked from outside. We rarely depart via the garage because our cars are outside (garage is storage in many California homes without basements).

I'm using a M1KP2 keypad in the M1BBK2 recessed flush mount. I just learned yesterday via reading posts (probably yours or DEL's) that the big circular cutout in the back of the recessed flush mount is for a speaker -- it hadn't dawned on me before what that big hole was for. I sure didn't see that in the documentation. I also didn't realize that the KP doesn't have any built-in audio capability. I'm guessing that I take the speaker from a SP12 and install it in the flush mount cutout -- right?

Re attic alarm speaker, I figured that the sound would be too muffled on the street with the roof structure, blown-in insulation, etc. It is not located near an attic vent (other than the soffit holes along the eaves). We have a "dutch gable" roof, so there are small gables at the ends of the house and each of those has a vent, but those spots are already occupied with attic fans (other thread re relays). In your experience, are attic speakers adequately loud outside the house? I like the idea of having the speaker mounted in the attic to avoid tamper and not clutter up the exterior. But only if it will alert the neighbors (we are on 1/4 acre lots, so houses are about 20 ft apart).

Re interior speakers, I'll go with the amplified M1TWA and the M1TWSF per your recommendation. That's what I concluded made most sense -- appreciate your confirmation. Is 4 conductor 22 ga alarm wire sufficient to these units? Or do I need 18 ga? Cat 6 is also 22 AWG. These are short runs from the panel to speaker/mic - maybe 40 ft one direction and 20 ft other direction.

 

[tmbrown97]

Thanks, W2P. I'm installing a single keypad at our front door. Rear doors in LR are both sliders and cannot be locked from outside. We rarely depart via the garage because our cars are outside (garage is storage in many California homes without basements).

Yup - I live in NorCal too - and I really miss the basements we had in Connecticut! You may also consider a keypad in the Master Bedroom - its really nice to be able to arm as you're heading to bed as well as to be able to see exactly what's going on if the alarm triggers.

I'm using a M1KP2 keypad in the M1BBK2 recessed flush mount. I just learned yesterday via reading posts (probably yours or DEL's) that the big circular cutout in the back of the recessed flush mount is for a speaker -- it hadn't dawned on me before what that big hole was for. I sure didn't see that in the documentation. I also didn't realize that the KP doesn't have any built-in audio capability. I'm guessing that I take the speaker from a SP12 and install it in the flush mount cutout -- right?

Yeah - just break the plastic tabs and it comes off the plate and screws right to the back box.

Re attic alarm speaker, I figured that the sound would be too muffled on the street with the roof structure, blown-in insulation, etc. It is not located near an attic vent (other than the soffit holes along the eaves). We have a "dutch gable" roof, so there are small gables at the ends of the house and each of those has a vent, but those spots are already occupied with attic fans (other thread re relays). In your experience, are attic speakers adequately loud outside the house? I like the idea of having the speaker mounted in the attic to avoid tamper and not clutter up the exterior. But only if it will alert the neighbors (we are on 1/4 acre lots, so houses are about 20 ft apart).

Can't hurt to try it and see! I'm not even really a fan of exterior sirens anymore. I've never seen anyone pay attention to or act on one unless you happen to hear it *and* see two guys walking out with a flat panel in their hands! So as long as there's a deterrent that your closest neighbor may hear that's adequate to me.

Re interior speakers, I'll go with the amplified M1TWA and the M1TWSF per your recommendation. That's what I concluded made most sense -- appreciate your confirmation. Is 4 conductor 22 ga alarm wire sufficient to these units? Or do I need 18 ga? Cat 6 is also 22 AWG. These are short runs from the panel to speaker/mic - maybe 40 ft one direction and 20 ft other direction.

I like 18/4 for speakers but if 22/4 is there it'll probably do fine

What part of NorCal?

 

[SteveInNorCal]

Hi. Thanks for quick response on Thanksgiving! Very helpful info, as always. We're on the Peninsula near SJ. You?

 

[tmbrown97]

I'm a little northeast of Sacramento.

If you decide to go with your stainless siren, you may consider just cutting/bypassing the internal siren driver and using it as a speaker. It's a little easier to manage the current draw, and this may just be my own OCD - but I prefer that the interior and exterior sirens are in perfect sync - rather than two separate sirens competing and ultimately creating noise. If they're both in sync it sound better and it's a clearer siren inside and out. The interior one will cut out the siren to play voice announcements too, then go back to the siren driver still staying in sync.