UPB - new construction
- Thread starter Alanb
- Start date
Ano,
Yes, I know they've been around for a while. That does not change the veracity of my statement. Read this article from their website which is where I got my info from.
I would likely consider them, as they claim lower cost installation than other hardwired solutions. However, that still does not address the expandability point that I made earlier - Hardwired solutions are more costly and not easily expanded after the drywall is up.
That said, I think the primary reasons I will be going with UPB are 1) Budget - I need to put more money in other systems as lighting automation was not originally in my budget. 2) Expandability - I can add and change along the way, as long as there is power there. Honestly, I can not afford to stop construction while I figure out the "best" answer. 3) Reliability - UPB claims to be reliable (no, not as or more reliable than hardwired, but reliable enough. Is 99% reliable enough, or do I need to spend thousands more to get to 100% ... again a budget issue)
Steve and others (actually, everyone)
Thank you for the thoughtful debate. At the least, I have been convinced to use sound wiring practices. I may seriously consider running cat5 to each switch so that if I find a need or reason to change to a hardwired or "future" solution I will hopefully have put an infrastructure in place that will let me do so. I do wonder if I need to home run all the cat5 or can serial runs work for known current systems?
Yes, I know they've been around for a while. That does not change the veracity of my statement. Read this article from their website which is where I got my info from.
I would likely consider them, as they claim lower cost installation than other hardwired solutions. However, that still does not address the expandability point that I made earlier - Hardwired solutions are more costly and not easily expanded after the drywall is up.
That said, I think the primary reasons I will be going with UPB are 1) Budget - I need to put more money in other systems as lighting automation was not originally in my budget. 2) Expandability - I can add and change along the way, as long as there is power there. Honestly, I can not afford to stop construction while I figure out the "best" answer. 3) Reliability - UPB claims to be reliable (no, not as or more reliable than hardwired, but reliable enough. Is 99% reliable enough, or do I need to spend thousands more to get to 100% ... again a budget issue)
Steve and others (actually, everyone)
Thank you for the thoughtful debate. At the least, I have been convinced to use sound wiring practices. I may seriously consider running cat5 to each switch so that if I find a need or reason to change to a hardwired or "future" solution I will hopefully have put an infrastructure in place that will let me do so. I do wonder if I need to home run all the cat5 or can serial runs work for known current systems?
hucker
Active Member
I am doing a fairly significant remodel/addition and have decided upon UPB for lighting. Now I'm trying to figure out how to wire this as my architect is new to smart switches and our first electrician has never done UPB.
In this thread several UPB strategies have been mentioned:
1) 1 Load per switch and then program trancievers switches for 3/4 way action.
2) Home run everything to UPB relays in basement and have all switches use links to control.
3) Augment standard wiring with UPB.
Option 1 makes sense to me but I don't understand the tradeoffs between using software link based switches and hardwired slave switches.
All of the the SA instructions show lots of multiway wiring examples. For example the US2-40 has a 2way a 3way and a 3way-multi-rocker example. The 3way schematics use the remote 1/2 lines to hard link to the other switches. Why would I want to run that extra wire when I could connect the US240 directly to the load and have the 2 remote switches connected only to power for communication... the only logical thing I have come up with is switch cost, retrofitting existing wiring or maybe speed...
Again, this is for new construction and I'm interested in a best practice strategy to approach this. I *think* the total cost of the UPB system might be the same or less than that of a hardwired system using regular leviton dumb switches with all of extra wiring for the multiways canceling out the extra cost for the smart switches (of course that doesn't include the cost for my HomeVision Pro...
)
In this thread several UPB strategies have been mentioned:
1) 1 Load per switch and then program trancievers switches for 3/4 way action.
2) Home run everything to UPB relays in basement and have all switches use links to control.
3) Augment standard wiring with UPB.
Option 1 makes sense to me but I don't understand the tradeoffs between using software link based switches and hardwired slave switches.
All of the the SA instructions show lots of multiway wiring examples. For example the US2-40 has a 2way a 3way and a 3way-multi-rocker example. The 3way schematics use the remote 1/2 lines to hard link to the other switches. Why would I want to run that extra wire when I could connect the US240 directly to the load and have the 2 remote switches connected only to power for communication... the only logical thing I have come up with is switch cost, retrofitting existing wiring or maybe speed...
Again, this is for new construction and I'm interested in a best practice strategy to approach this. I *think* the total cost of the UPB system might be the same or less than that of a hardwired system using regular leviton dumb switches with all of extra wiring for the multiways canceling out the extra cost for the smart switches (of course that doesn't include the cost for my HomeVision Pro...
)JoltElectric
New Member
I am an electrician, just went to EHX in long beach and offer a couple points here. If you run all your homeruns to your basement, you might as well do a homeworks type system, the cost of copper is not good right now. On a new house where you don't want to mess with the electrician, why not run cat 5 to each switch and back to your structured wiring panel then install a OnQ legrand type system. For the electrician it is a no brainer.
However if you want to get rid of the switches on the wall, I talked to one electrician at the show (The Insteon trainer) who used to run the load of the switches to the nearest attic access and install the switch there and a keypad in the room.
To me, it seemed like the linking would then be a hassle.
My opinion, your idea in the first post would be best, just put the switches from the problem locations, such as the 7 switches in the attic.
Just remember, each new homerun you make is a lot of copper and starts adding up.
However if you want to get rid of the switches on the wall, I talked to one electrician at the show (The Insteon trainer) who used to run the load of the switches to the nearest attic access and install the switch there and a keypad in the room.
To me, it seemed like the linking would then be a hassle.
My opinion, your idea in the first post would be best, just put the switches from the problem locations, such as the 7 switches in the attic.
Just remember, each new homerun you make is a lot of copper and starts adding up.
What is the best practice/system to use in new construction, where wiring would be done the most conventional way. I would think that having a system where the wiring is done the conventional way would be the most advantagous. If you ever decided to go back to standard switches its there. You don't have to worry about switches in the attic. I mean hidden switches would be great. But what about resale value. Most people are not technologically advanced and would prefer statdard switches. Then there is the issue of code, which one of our electricians could chime in on, there are certain locations where swiches must be.
Brian
Brian
acdcelectric
Member
Remember that if you wire using standard elecrical switches, your costs per switch are only around $1.00 each. You can then upgrade as needs arise, room by room with the $ 60+ UPB switches as you live with technology.
That's the beauty of UPB, it is great for replacing dumb switches as the need arises. Also don't forget that you may not know the status of switches/lights in rmote locations depending onyour controller.
And you won't have to retrain your electrician.
That's the beauty of UPB, it is great for replacing dumb switches as the need arises. Also don't forget that you may not know the status of switches/lights in rmote locations depending onyour controller.
And you won't have to retrain your electrician.
