UPB or Insteon?

[RandyKnight]

So I've got my first set of UPB devices I got from Martin yesterday up and running and I'm definitely hooked. I had planned on going with Insteon due to the price difference but Marting talked me out of it.

I've got 2 switches, a lamp module, and a keypad running ... UPStart was great and I've also installed HomeSeer 2.0 with UPB plugin as well as the MCE plugin ... very cool.

But I'm still having sticker shock. I went around and counted switches in this house and to do everything UPB it would be over $1000 ... and that's for a 2200sf house. If I went with Insteon Icons ... it would be WELL under half that.

So I need you guys to talk me in/out of UPB.

BTW, this will all ultimately be going into a new home I'll be breaking ground on this summer. 4500sf "dream home". I'm putting it in my current home to gain the experience but will plan on taking it all with me.

 

[Rupp]

It too late now. You might as well start saving ...

 

[Herdfan]

I had planned on going with Insteon due to the price difference but Marting talked me out of it.

BTW, this will all ultimately be going into a new home I'll be breaking ground on this summer. 4500sf "dream home".

Just out of curiosity, what were his reasons for UBP over Insteon?

As for your dream home, congratulations, but if you don't mind, let me make a suggestion: Go with a wired solution if you can. Skimp on other items that can be easily replaced later or don't finish a basement or any number of other things that can be added or fixed later in order to get a wired system. If having an automated home is important to you, you won't be sorry.

 

[WayneW]

So I need you guys to talk me in/out of UPB.

I pointed you to Martin, but I didn't know he was going to seduce you over to the dark side. He seduced you, so get HIM to pricematch UPB to Insteon I like my Insteon so far and will be testing Power-Home tonight to help in link & config management.

 

[RandyKnight]

He did give me some pretty good prices on the UPB stuff. In terms of his reasons to prefer UPB over Insteon, I'm sure he can answer better than I can but here were the main things we discussed:

1. Software support, especially UPStart and the ability to program everything from there instead of running around putting devices into programming mode all the time.

2. 2-way communication by default vs. Insteon which required some doing to get it to work.

3. He said SmartHome may be discontinuing the Icon line .. making the price difference not as big between the non-Icon Insteaon stuff and UPB.


In addition to all of that, some of my own thoughts are:

1. Because pros are doing UPB and Insteon seems to be more "DIY", it would seem to me that in terms of resale value for a "smarthome" UPB might be the better investment.

2. Availability of devices for Insteon vs. UPB.

All of that said, I may get some Insteon as well to play with it. I'd love to hear the arguments for/against Insteon.

Randy

 

[Dean Roddey]

As above, I would also argue that, if you are building new, use a wired system, at least for the core parts of the home. You can always use UPB for the peripheral stuff where it would most more to get them wired relative to how often you use them or how critical they are.

 

[RandyKnight]

What wired system would you guys recommend and why? How does the cost of devices compare to UPB or Insteon? Is the extra wire the primary cost differential or do the devices themselves cost more?

 

[electron]

ONQ looks very interesting, and seems to be in the UPB price range. From what I can tell, all you have to do is run CAT5 to the switch location (but do your own research to confirm these details, just to be sure).

 

[upstatemike]

He did give me some pretty good prices on the UPB stuff. In terms of his reasons to prefer UPB over Insteon, I'm sure he can answer better than I can but here were the main things we discussed:

1. Software support, especially UPStart and the ability to program everything from there instead of running around putting devices into programming mode all the time.

2. 2-way communication by default vs. Insteon which required some doing to get it to work.

3. He said SmartHome may be discontinuing the Icon line .. making the price difference not as big between the non-Icon Insteaon stuff and UPB.


In addition to all of that, some of my own thoughts are:

1. Because pros are doing UPB and Insteon seems to be more "DIY", it would seem to me that in terms of resale value for a "smarthome" UPB might be the better investment.

2. Availability of devices for Insteon vs. UPB.

All of that said, I may get some Insteon as well to play with it. I'd love to hear the arguments for/against Insteon.

Randy

Wow, I didn't know that Icon was being discontinued already! And I thought all links were 2-way (they all require a message acknowledgement back to the originator)? Powerhome has pretty much resolved the software issue and device availability has to be compared to where UPB was in it's first few months so you are comparing apples to apples.

I'm not sure about the resale value point. Why would you be going through all the aggravation of building a dream home if you are just going to turn around and sell it?

 

[RandyKnight]

Like I said, I'm new to this so I'm going off what Martin / others have told me. Regarding the resale point, of course I'm not planning on turning around and selling the house ... but resale should always be a consideration in home design and/or improvements IMO. For most of us, our homes are the single biggest investment we'll ever have so it pays to approach it that way.

 

[Herdfan]

What wired system would you guys recommend and why? How does the cost of devices compare to UPB or Insteon?

The only wired system I have had in-depth experieince with is LiteTouch: http://www.litetouch.com/ What what I have seen of it in my neighbor's home, it is a very powerful system. It is not cheap. He told me it cost something like $15K in 1997. Prices may have come down since then, but you never know.

There is also Lutron Homeworks: http://www.lutron.com/homeworks/overview.asp Everything I have read about it says its rock solid, but again expensive. The one good thing about Lutron is that they have 2 series so that you can pick what level of lighting control you need.

Then there are the high end Crestron and AMX systems that control everything in the house and cost as much as an average one.

As for the price, in my area where housing prices seem to be at or slightly below the national average, nice homes cost in the $80-100/sq. ft. range. So 4500+ would be in the upper $300's or higher. When you are spending that much, $20K for lighting is not outrageous.

Like I suggested, there are many places you can cut costs that can easily be changed out later. Lights and fixtures are one place you can save. Go with contractor grade in seldom used areas. They can always be replaced with higher end stuff in the future. Grow grass vs. sod, linoleum vs. tile in some places. There are plenty of places to cut costs. If you plan on a security system, have it wired but not installed. Same for intercoms and whole house vacs. And if you have never built a house, go ahead and add 10% to what you think it will cost.

 

[AutomatedOutlet]

3. He said SmartHome may be discontinuing the Icon line .. making the price difference not as big between the non-Icon Insteaon stuff and UPB.

Well, we're still waiting to see what happens. It may just be that the Icon stuff will be sold differently or changed. SH hasn't announced anything that I am aware of.

 

[WayneW]

for wired lighting control, don't forget CentraLite. The LiteJet is pretty affordable (relatively) http://www.centralite.com/products/LiteJet/index.aspx

 

[Steve]

Randy,

I feel for ya, the top of the fence is a tough place to be. Unfortunately at this time there are several emerging technologies and its a tough time to choose a path. As you already see, everyone will have their opinions and tend to defend their personal choice. You just need to look at the facts and make a decision. I agree if building from scratch hardwired lighting will always be the most reliable, but I thought you said you were moving to pre-existing - sorry must have confused a few of you. There are going to be pros and cons to both UPB and Insteon. Most people here are on the bleeding edge. Personally, I got tired of bleeding with setup of Insteon and went with UPB and have not regretted my choice. That was several months ago and things have changed a bit, but IMHO UPB is more mature, the setup is still alot easier and support from companies like Simply Automated is outstanding. There is also no reason why down the road a bit you a mix of both UPB and Insteon, Elk will support both simultaneously. The only possible reason not to mix would be aesthetics - the switches look and feel different. I am considering using ICON switches for closets, garage, etc but waiting to see what happens. Whatever decision you make will be right for you, good luck.

 

[RandyKnight]

As for the price, in my area where housing prices seem to be at or slightly below the national average, nice homes cost in the $80-100/sq. ft. range. So 4500+ would be in the upper $300's or higher. When you are spending that much, $20K for lighting is not outrageous.

Like I suggested, there are many places you can cut costs that can easily be changed out later. Lights and fixtures are one place you can save.

We're owner-building and hope to be in at around $75 / sf, not counting HA stuff. While I agree with your points regarding the overall cost of the home in relation to lighting (one reason I'm leaning towards UPB over Insteon) you have to look at the overall value proposition as well. If hardwired is 20K and I can do UPB for 5K, I'd have to be convinced that hardwired is 4 times better ... otherwise it makes more sense to spend the 15K elsewhere.

Back to my original question then? For the hardwired systems, are the devices / controllers / software themselves significantly more expensive, or is it just having to run the low voltage control wires? Because even if I go with UPB, I'll likely run Cat 5 to all of the switches anyway ... just in case things change in the future. Cat 5e is cheap and I intent to put a LOT of it in the house.

Thanks for your input.