UPB or Insteon?

[AutomatedOutlet]

For the hardwired systems, are the devices / controllers / software themselves significantly more expensive, or is it just having to run the low voltage control wires?

We'll be carrying the LiteJet stuff soon so I have seen pricing. Pricing of course depends on configuration but you can plan on about $100 per device.

We also carry the Lightolier MultiSet Pro hardwired system. That will run about $80-$120 per device depending on configuration. This hardwired system doesn't use cat5 it uses a 14 gauge control wire.

Keep in mind a few things with hardwired solutions:

1) In the case of LiteJet, You have no load bearing devices in the individual rooms - cat5 connected keypads. You therefore have some duplication of devices - ie. - a load bearing device in your panel and also a keypad in the rooms. This adds a little to the cost.

2) When looking at the hardwired solutions, also make sure to feel the keypads that you will be using in the rooms. Opinions vary but some of the solutions I don't think have a good "feel" to them - some of them do.

 

[Herdfan]

We're owner-building and hope to be in at around $75 / sf, not counting HA stuff.

Back to my original question then? For the hardwired systems, are the devices / controllers / software themselves significantly more expensive,

Most of the hardwired systems run all lights and/or switches back to a central processor. The Litetouch system I am familiar with has a processor that has all the switches AND the lights wired to it. It is the switch. The wall switches do nothing but relay commands. I beleive some of the others switch from the switch locations but the switches can send a command via the processor to other switches.

So much of the cost is in the processor and the switches. As for programming, I have watched my neighbor change what a switch does with the Litetouch system and he told me that he could have programmed the entire house. It just took him a little time to get used to the software.

I am just waiting until I am in the owner-builder role. I had our previous house built and head butted with the builder over little stuff that should never have been an issue. So the next go around, I will be in charge and will hire a builder as a consultant and let him provide subs and guidance, but I will be free to do what ever I want to the house while under construction.

 

[DavidL]

hard wired is that last .5% reliable, slightly faster and costs 4+ times the money. It's not just the cat5 wire. It is the load boxes and controllers. It also is more expensive to install as there are essentially multiple 'breaker' panels with the loads in them with all load wires home run to the basement panels.

I would say that there isn't much resale difference between insteon and UPB. There would be some incremental resale advantage to a hard wired system like Litetouch, Vantage, Crestron and other big buck setups. Might be out of school, but if you are targeting $75 / sq ft, you probably don't want a hard wired system.

You could always "home run" wire the house if you are doing the labor. The wire cost would be a few hundred more. Also run Cat5 to all switch locations to future proof with that type of switch system. You could install a powerline system and then upgrade to a hard wired system down the road when the lottery hits.

good luck with your project. Assume you will have major headaches and you will then be satisfied when it is all over.

 

[RandyKnight]

Running Cat5 to all the switch locations seems like a good idea futureproof wise so I'll probably do that for sure. The "home run" is an intriguing idea. Are you saying home run the actual romex? Never heard of doing it that way but I can't see why it wouldn't work ... just a lot more wire. Ultimate flexibility in configuring circuits though. Anybody know what NEC has to say about that?

More to think about. I'll be doing most of the electrical myself so I can do pretty much whatever I want. And we're in unincorporated county with no county inspections so I'm good there too.

 

[Herdfan]

The "home run" is an intriguing idea. Are you saying home run the actual romex?

That is how my neighbor's Litetouch system is installed. He actually has 2 processor units -1 for each floor. So the romex for all his lights is run back to the processors.

So yes you could run the romex from a switch though a central area and then on to the light so you would be ready for a central processor in the future. Just label it all very well.

 

[upstatemike]

At some point the number of Romex runs will become more expensive than running EMT with several circuits in it to a given area.

 

[RandyKnight]

EMT?

 

[upstatemike]

Extruded Metal Tubing, aka Thinwall Conduit.

 

[SmartLabsMike]

For clarification:

1.) SmartLabs is not discontinuing ICON.

2.) All Insteon-enabled devices are inherently two-way.

 

[WayneW]

For clarification:

1.) SmartLabs is not discontinuing ICON.

2.) All Insteon-enabled devices are inherently two-way.

Any truth to the rumors about price increases or things being sold differently?

 

[AutomatedOutlet]

Randy,

How many floors will the house be? The answer to that will also tell us how accessable the walls will be later.

 

[SmartLabsMike]

Any truth to the rumors about price increases or things being sold differently?

Prices will not be changing and things will continue to be sold how they always have been.

Not sure of where the rumors came from but I hope this helps

 

[RandyKnight]

How many floors will the house be? The answer to that will also tell us how accessable the walls will be later.

Still working on the plans but that is something I am definitely keeping in mind. It will be a 2-story house but not necessarily 2 stories of straight up walls ... more like a 12:12 roof with game room and some bedrooms carved out of the attic space.

But we're early in the planning stages so we'll see how that goes. It's being custom designed from the ground up so we can do whatver we want to.

 

[TCassio]

Randy,
You might want to check the Electrical codes for your area. I don't think your allowed to have low voltage (cat5) and electrical wires in the same jbox.

 

[electron]

ONQ is somehow working around that limitation, would be interesting to find out how they are doing this.