UPB or Insteon

[Steve]

Don't spend forever, set a deadline of a few weeks and just compare. UPStart only works with UPB. PowerHome for configuring Insteon is because Smarthome never had anything like UPStart so Powerhome did a better job and made it easier to configure Insteon. UPStart is free, will work with any brand UPB and is downloadable from SAI, HAI or PCS. With Elk you need a dedicated M1XSP because the Insteon firmware is separate. It would be best to just have 2 XSP's hooked up, 1 for Insteon and 1 for UPB and run it side by side. If you only have 1 XSP you will need to reflash the firmware to go back and forth - doable, but not ideal. There are no issues running 2 of them side by side.

 

[Event5]

A side by side comparison of UPStart and PowerHome would be helpful. I have not used PowerHome. UPSTart is a free application that (after a short learning curve) can be a very enjoyable tool for setup, organizing, and tweaking a UPB system.

Dave

 

[DavidL]

Cinemar supports both UPB and Insteon. We are just finishing up Link Management with a new "MLInsteonPLM" plugin that supports Smarthome's Power Line Modem. With this new Link Management software, the setup and "hassle" differences between the two technologies is narrowed. At this point, I believe it is mostly about look / feel which everyone has their own opinion based on their home and taste.

 

[upstatemike]

Mike,

To expand on your "Scene" issue, I don't like the way Insteon handles it. If you have a scene button on a keypad and turn the scene "ON" and someone controls a light at the source, the keypad LED goes off. So to turn the scene OFF, you either have to either have a separate OFF scene button or turnt he scene back ON, and then OFF.

I dont understand what you mean by "turn a scene OFF". A scene is either set or it is not. If it is not set then the affected devices can be an any state that does not equal the scene. There is no single specific definition for a scene to be OFF.

Also, I don't know how UPB does this, but Insteon won't let you use a keypad button to turn some loads on and other off for true scene control.

I agree that this would be a better way to define scenes. With Insteon you have to turn devices ON to 0% brightness. This has not been too much of an issue for me since I mostly use relay switches so it works the same as setting them to OFF. I still like the UPB method better.

 

[Herdfan]

I dont understand what you mean by "turn a scene OFF". A scene is either set or it is not. If it is not set then the affected devices can be an any state that does not equal the scene. There is no single specific definition for a scene to be OFF

I mean to turn the lights associated with a particular scene off. When I had Insteon, I had a keypad button called "Evening" that would turn on 3 specific lights. If anyone turned off any of those three lights, the keypad indicator light went off. So to turn off the other 2 lights, I had to turn the scene back ON, and then OFF.

With my Lutron system, I can set a keypad button to "Room" logic so that the keypad button will be lit if any light associated with that scene is on at any level. So if you have a scene with 20 loads, even if someone turns off a couple of them, pressing that scene button on the keypad would turn the remaining lights off. An example from my house: At the top of the stairs to the basement is a Basement ON button. Pressing it turns every light in the basement ON. So if you went down at night to look for something and turn off the lights in the guest room when you left it, the Basement ON led would still be lit and the rest of the basement lights could be turned off by pressing the Basement ON button. I suppose another way to do this would be to have another button for Basement OFF, but I was out of buttons.

 

[Event5]

With my Lutron system, I can set a keypad button to "Room" logic so that the keypad button will be lit if any light associated with that scene is on at any level. So if you have a scene with 20 loads, even if someone turns off a couple of them, pressing that scene button on the keypad would turn the remaining lights off. An example from my house: At the top of the stairs to the basement is a Basement ON button. Pressing it turns every light in the basement ON. So if you went down at night to look for something and turn off the lights in the guest room when you left it, the Basement ON led would still be lit and the rest of the basement lights could be turned off by pressing the Basement ON button. I suppose another way to do this would be to have another button for Basement OFF, but I was out of buttons.

In UPStart there are many configuration options, including a custom option where you can set what a button does when it is pressed, double pressed, held or released. Here is 2 screen shots of the options on a button. The first is the standard choices and the second image is the dropdown menu for the custom settings. Scroll down a blank page to see the second image.

View attachment 1252

 

[jhimmel]

But UPB has true wired inline relays and dimmers, a plug in I/O module, a plug in scheduler/timer module and a plug in pocket programmer. Insteon does not have those. So at this moment in time I don't think that's a fair statement.

Insteon has inline dimmers and relays (Smarthome's "In-Linelinc dimmer" and "In-Linelinc Relay"), plug in I/O (Simplehomenet EZIO - three different models), the PLC can accept downloaded timers, and the "ISY-26" is a nice stand-alone controller with web access, and "EZBridge" also runs timers and events - no pocket programmer though. Insteon also has an irrigation controller ("EZRain"), and HVAC control ("EZStat" and "EZTherm").

Plenty of room for new devices though. I am STILL waiting for a simple replacement for my old X10 "Universal Module" for low voltage switching without all the complexity and expense of an EZIO module.

Jim H.

 

[hucker]

I have UPB and have been very happy with all aspects of the installation.

Happy List

1) UPStart Rocks!
2) UPB Configuration and switch flexibility rocks.
3) Scenes work great, when I figured out that scenes could be dimmed I was very happy!
4) UPB control from HVPro has been flawless
5) House was easy to wire because of UPB.


Unhappy list:


1) I used a bunch of the split rockers (2 vertical switches in a single switch body). They look nice but have a fatal flaw. You can't press them both at the same time. Sometimes one works, sometimes neither and never both. This makes it frustrating to use because your inclination often is to press both because you want all the lights on. When only one works you might not be sure which one... low WAF!

2) When using the split rockers with the US130 switch body you can only switch the load on the left switch. This sucks! All three of my locations of 130's where I used the split rockers had the more intuitive location for the load on the right... I'll be buying more 240's. (Iknow I could have put the switch in upside down but it looks funny with the LED on the bottom).

3) My wife finds the dimmers a pain to use. Because of the delay you need to set the fade rate pretty low. This makes dimming a slow process.

4) I have had two UFR relays die. For me that is a 50% fallout.

5) The switch delay in our house has 0 WAF! She hasn't made me rip it out but close. I'm ordering a bunch of the newer switches soon for the 'high use' switches.

Please buy an eval kit before you use UPB. Make sure you get the newer switches with the shorter delay. Some people will find the delay a VERY bad problem...

 

[Ranger Digital]

I predict jim will become an official junkie within six months and will need his daily fix of coccontech. any bets? :blink:

 

[fcwilt]

Hi,

As far as UPB goes DE-activating a "scene" (a link) turns all the associated devices off.

Regards, Frederick C. Wilt

 

[Herdfan]

In UPStart there are many configuration options, including a custom option where you can set what a button does when it is pressed, double pressed, held or released.

Those very similar to the capabilities of my Lutron system. And way above anything Insteon can do. That is nice looking software.

 

[Herdfan]

Some people will find the delay a VERY bad problem...

Have you tried to disguise the delay by using a slower ramp rate? Then it just looks like the delay is part of the ramp up or down.

 

[Ranger Digital]

fredrick, welcome to the board!!!

 

[jimhannah]

RangerDigital, you're exactly right. In fact, I've been kinda lurking in the shadows since about 1 June. Have spent well over 150 hrs reading and designing my system plus a little Insteon testing. Read Elk manual pretty much cover to cover. Have learned more than I ever thought I wanted to know about security devices. It seems like I already know all you guys. When I see a handle I can pretty much predict the direction the post is going. Great stuff here!!! Thanks for all the help (and patience!!!) When I get the Elk, whether with Insteon or UPB, I'm sure you'll hear more from me!!

jim

 

[Steve]

When I see a handle I can pretty much predict the direction the post is going.

I think you should go with x10, a JDS Stargate and ActiveHome. UPB and Insteon both stink.

Bet you didn't see that coming :blink: