UPB or Insteon

If you're going to go Insteon, consider the purchase of an ISY-26 for your link management, scene creation, etc. - and possibly events & triggers. SO EASY to program, and it's really a great device, and they seem to be working closely with Elk on integration.
Until the ISY-26 has a way to load the Insteon linkages into Elk, I would suggest using PowerHome for link management and loading into the M1.

The ISY-26 is supposed to support the M1 with the next firmware release but I can't find any details on what that actually means. Will it be able to load links into the ELK? Will it be able to trigger actions from individual Elk zones? Or will it just be able to arm/ disarm the M1 and keep the Insteon device status tables in sync between the two systems?
 
Jim,

I haven't seen this mentioned and am kind of surprised, but have you considered one of the RF protocols for your lighting. Maybe you said at some point that you couldn't use RF, and if you did I missed it.

Like UPB, there are multiple vendors for Z-wave including 800lb gorilla Leviton.

Just another option.
 
Really?? I've seen a few threads in here recently with people having major UPB communications issues, and posts indicate that there's no practical filter available.

I realize that UPB is more resilient to noise than other powerline protocols, but from what I've read when they do happen they seem to be next to impossible to solve.

Do you have a link to a UPB filter?
I don't think they are 'readily' available for online purchase however you can get one if needed. From Brad @ SAI:

Noise is another issue. Simply Automated will be releasing a couple of filters, wired in and plug in versions in 5A and 15A ratings. The noise could also be a poor connection. I have seen poor connections at a device create noise and signal level issues. Call me about the filters 800-630-9234 X138.

Also PCS I think has some by request. Best thing to do is either contact Brad or Automated Outlet. I know they are working toward new firmware which is even more noise tolerant, trying to eliminate the need for filters entirely.
 
Herdfan, I have looked at Z-Wave and just passed on by without giving it true evaluation. RF solutions are not ruled out in my application. Well, maybe for now, but in fact, I am a big fan of RF and believe RF will eventually be the "wave" of the future. As someone posted here recently, the plc guys who integrate well with RF may stay in for the long haul, but I think pure plc may have difficulty as the RF gains momentum. I've watched Zigbee for a long time and once thought that another 800lb Gorilla, Eaton, would get very heavy into it; pushing the technology into the consumer world. They have been much slower in that than I thought they would be. RF in home automation may be kinda like massively parallel computing. Once the protocols for complex mesh and multi-nodal networks are fully established, RF will be hard to beat. (Maybe it's already there for lighting control? Just one more area where I have near zero knowledge!!)

Maybe someone will start another thread on this subject (comparison of RF technologies/protocols, and maturity, for home automation)

Yeah, the "multiple vendors" part is certainly a plus for any technology (from consumer/user standpoint). It always scares me to deal with a sole source on anything.

Thanks,
jim
 
Really?? I've seen a few threads in here recently with people having major UPB communications issues, and posts indicate that there's no practical filter available.

I realize that UPB is more resilient to noise than other powerline protocols, but from what I've read when they do happen they seem to be next to impossible to solve.

Do you have a link to a UPB filter?

Yes, they are available. We have them installed in our training room to isolate each workstation from sending signals to each other when people are doing hands-on training in the classroom. They will be on the site soon. I think because the demand has been so low for them that they haven't officially been released yet. If someone needs one though, please contact us.
 
Yeah, the "multiple vendors" part is certainly a plus for any technology (from consumer/user standpoint). It always scares me to deal with a sole source on anything.

Yes, I think that's critical. It keeps vendors competing against each other. New products come out faster and pricing drops. Over the last year or so, Insteon pricing has gone way up (one vendor...).
 
Yeah, the "multiple vendors" part is certainly a plus for any technology (from consumer/user standpoint). It always scares me to deal with a sole source on anything.

Yes, I think that's critical. It keeps vendors competing against each other. New products come out faster and pricing drops. Over the last year or so, Insteon pricing has gone way up (one vendor...).

If you ask them they havent gone up approx. 75%. Its just our imagination. :D

Seriosly they told me they went up less than 20% for the suggested retail since release. They might be right but it still looks like 75% to your wallet.
 
We may be beating a dead horse by now, but I still have a question I'm not clear on. I think someone may have answered it earlier but I'm not understanding it. Can Insteon devices and UPB devices coexist in the same network? Is there a problem with interference or attenuation in a mixed system? Can they both be controlled by the Elk while on the same network (network meaning the house electrical grid)?

Thanks much. This has been very informative!!
 
They should work side by side without issues. Here is the info from above specific to Elk. You will need a dedicated M1XSP for each, Elk has a dedicated/special XSP firmware just for Insteon.

With Elk you need a dedicated M1XSP because the Insteon firmware is separate. It would be best to just have 2 XSP's hooked up, 1 for Insteon and 1 for UPB and run it side by side. If you only have 1 XSP you will need to reflash the firmware to go back and forth - doable, but not ideal.
 
Got it now, Steve, thanks. I'll keep everyone posted on progress as I deploy the few devices planned for this phase. I'm trying to keep good records on install dates, issues found, solutions, etc.
 
Not to throw another log onto the fire, but you may look into RadioRa. It isn't that much more expensive than UPB after you consider the swich body and switch. And personally I think the switches look better. I'm also looking at a Homeworks RF quote as I think that is where I'd really like to be.

-Josh
 
Not to throw another log onto the fire, but you may look into RadioRa. It isn't that much more expensive than UPB after you consider the swich body and switch. And personally I think the switches look better. I'm also looking at a Homeworks RF quote as I think that is where I'd really like to be.

-Josh

I was told that RadioRa does not report dimmed state values via rs232, only on and off. Does anyone know if that is false/true?

Elk will be supporting Centralite's Jetstream which is wireless. I spoke with Spanky last Friday and he said it looks very promising.
 
I'm also looking at a Homeworks RF quote as I think that is where I'd really like to be.
Mine has been FLAWLESS for almost 6 months now. The only issue I had was a few missed commands which I traced to my wife having unplugged a repeater.

The flexibility to have conditionals built into the system allows almost total control of your lighting. An example, in my dining room, I have a keypad button labled "Dining". I turns on the chandelier and recessed lights to different levels based on whether it is day or evening based on its astronomic clock. Another example is the morning routine timer. I have a button that can modify the routine based on whether or not there is school.

So while it was not cheap, given the train wreck that was my Insteon install, it has been well worth it.
 
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