Upcoming change in CQC pricing

[aslamma]

Yeah, with good alternatives, I wonder if this pushes the DIY towards those alternatives and CQC becomes primarily a professional product. I suppose this has good and bad.

I wonder though if the net effect is bad for both DIY and pros? Don't DIY guys also contribute a lot at the same time? So you can liken it to a discount to the user who often times is adding more value back to the community at a far greater rate than the average pro client who sits on the sidelines. The forums are a place for people to give feedback on what they want and what is not working properly. This helps push the product, keeping it relevant, and enhancing it.

I do understand where Dean is coming from and why he might have to do this, but is this a short term fix that creates a long term problem? Just speculating.

 

[Dean Roddey]

So I can see what the pros are saying, but I also think it makes sense that a DIY guy should get a good discount. I wonder what the impact will be if the price really does double. Would the forum support start to dwindle? CQC is a tricky enough program as it is, and with the price hike, I suppose it would scare a lot of new DIY users off.

Well, we are already clearly beyond the average person's price threshold anyway. The general rule of thumb in the CE world, is $300 is the point at which casual purchase items start to bump into the price sensitivity range of most consumers. But this isn't a casual purchase item really. And, ultimately, the DIY market is just so small, no matter what the price, that no company can really make it on that market. So it's the pro market or else. Therefore we have to do what is necessary to make the pro folks happy.

The pro guy's position of course would be "I sell multiple systems a year, I already know the product and therefore don't require a lot of hand holding for each new system sold, I'm out here working to move systems for you, therefore I'm the one who deserves the discount." I think that they would argue that providing the revenues that allows the company (and therefore the product) to exist, doesn't constitute sitting on the sidelines.

 

[aslamma]

Dean,

-All good points, makes sense. I did not realize the DIY market was *that* small.

-I wonder why the pros are so concerned about the DIY guy? Is the DIY guy really a likely to go to a pro anyway? So whats the big deal? Isn't their real competition really other pro software anyway? The DIY guy is not making money off the product, so that should be taken into consideration as a relevant difference in philosophy.

-So "IF" it is true that a DIY guy is not going to a pro anyway, you get at least a little bit of cash but also get a larger, more vocal support base. Isn't this a win/win for both the pro and the DIY? "IF" you agree that the pro competition are other pros (and not DIY), then ultimately are they doing themselves a disservice by forcing this upon you?

-IF the DIY guy is such a small market, why do you even appeal to it? Is it because there is something other than money that helps the product grow?

I am not complaining or anything. Hey, you can charge whatever you want, its your company and you need to make it successful. I guess I am just curious about the symbiotic relationship between the pro (cash) and the DIY guy (intangibles) and how this might affect the balance of things. If I were in your shoes, I would probably do the same thing.

 

[Dean Roddey]

I wonder why the pros are so concerned about the DIY guy? Is the DIY guy really a likely to go to a pro anyway? So whats the big deal? Isn't their real competition really other pro software anyway? The DIY guy is not making money off the product, so that should be taken into consideration as a relevant difference in philosophy.

It's not that there are DIYers, but that the DIY version of the product sold for like 1/4th what the pro version did, and it was the same product. So when they try to sell it to a customer, and he goes to the web site and sees it's 1/4th what he's being charged, it immediately becomes an argument about why he's paying so much.

Under the new scheme, everyone pays the same retail price, so it doesn't matter whether you are dealing through a pro or you are a DIYers, and therefore the problem goes away. And we can then openly sell the product and show the retail price on the web site, which we can't do now, which pretty much has meant almost zero DIY sales because only those folks who know it's available come asking.

 

[aslamma]

I do see the problem. Help me on the math though. You say it was 1/4th the price for the DIY, but you are now going to double it and everyone pays the same price. So you are cutting the pro version in half? Confusing to me.

So if the DIY market is nearly zero, what do you get out of it working with the community on sites such as this? Just curious.

If I was a pro customer and saw the price difference, I would not be happy about it either so I can see where you and the pro's are coming from. So if the price is the same, I suppose this creates an interesting option to me at least. I could have a pro install it and perhaps give me minimal support to get it going. Then I could take it from there...a DIY/pro hybrid, haha.

 

[zpollock]

Will the annual license fee go up as well?

That will go away. We will just charge for new stuff as appropriate...

Dean,

Are you able to elaborate on this statement? I certainly understand if you need to adjust the business model to make things work, I'd just hate to see CQC end up as a product where every additional feature and module is a cost plus item. Homeseer went that way, and it created a lot of issues. I justified the higher price of my CQC license (even though I already owned HS too) because it was all inclusive, and I believed it would remain so as long as I kept the maintenance fees current. It would be a shame if that changed now. Hopefully you're just referring to the standard sort of $XX dollar upgrade to the latest major release as is done with most software.

 

[WayneW]

It's not that there are DIYers, but that the DIY version of the product sold for like 1/4th what the pro version did, and it was the same product. So when they try to sell it to a customer, and he goes to the web site and sees it's 1/4th what he's being charged, it immediately becomes an argument about why he's paying so much.

IIRC, the DIY price (and even the existence of a DIY version) has been removed from the CQC website for quite some time. How are a Pro installers prospective customers even finding out about the DIY version?

Why not do like the big retailers do to prevent price matching (i.e., create a new SKU)? Like "CQC Pro" and "CQC DIY"? As long as you don't provide a comparison chart, who would know they are basically/totally the same, just licensed different?

 

[jkish]

Will the annual license fee go up as well?

That will go away. We will just charge for new stuff as appropriate...

Dean,

Are you able to elaborate on this statement? I certainly understand if you need to adjust the business model to make things work, I'd just hate to see CQC end up as a product where every additional feature and module is a cost plus item. Homeseer went that way, and it created a lot of issues. I justified the higher price of my CQC license (even though I already owned HS too) because it was all inclusive, and I believed it would remain so as long as I kept the maintenance fees current. It would be a shame if that changed now. Hopefully you're just referring to the standard sort of $XX dollar upgrade to the latest major release as is done with most software.

Yes, I would like to know too - maybe an announcement on the CQC board of the plans would be appropriate.

 

[Dean Roddey]

It's not that there are DIYers, but that the DIY version of the product sold for like 1/4th what the pro version did, and it was the same product. So when they try to sell it to a customer, and he goes to the web site and sees it's 1/4th what he's being charged, it immediately becomes an argument about why he's paying so much.

IIRC, the DIY price (and even the existence of a DIY version) has been removed from the CQC website for quite some time. How are a Pro installers prospective customers even finding out about the DIY version?

Why not do like the big retailers do to prevent price matching (i.e., create a new SKU)? Like "CQC Pro" and "CQC DIY"? As long as you don't provide a comparison chart, who would know they are basically/totally the same, just licensed different?

Because in order to sell to DIYers we really have to advertise the product and let people order it form the web site. That means that the price has to be visible. We only removed it because we had to in order to keep the peace. But we want to be able to sell it to DIYers as well if they are interested.

 

[Dean Roddey]

Dean,

Are you able to elaborate on this statement? I certainly understand if you need to adjust the business model to make things work, I'd just hate to see CQC end up as a product where every additional feature and module is a cost plus item. Homeseer went that way, and it created a lot of issues. I justified the higher price of my CQC license (even though I already owned HS too) because it was all inclusive, and I believed it would remain so as long as I kept the maintenance fees current. It would be a shame if that changed now. Hopefully you're just referring to the standard sort of $XX dollar upgrade to the latest major release as is done with most software.

There will likely be some small fee for major version upgrades. But, since everyone is now going to be paying per component, we can't just let everyone else have them for free. It wouldn't be fair. So new components will be made available for a price. A discount for existing customers of course.

We will honor any maintenance fees until they run out, so you could always pay a few years ahead and be sure you don't have to pay anything until after that. That's a long ways out and a lot of new stuff will show up in that time frame.

It won't end up being a hundred different things to buy separately. There are only currently like 6 or 7 components or so, plus there will be a per touch screen client price. The per client thing is really the only way to scale the product price to match the size of the system. So that we can scale it down low for very simple systems, but still get our fair share when it's some $100K installation.

 

[beelzerob]

plus there will be a per touch screen client price.

How exactly is that calculated? I mean....at this point, CQC has no idea if it's being displayed on my regular desktop PC or on a touchscreen monitor I picked up on ebay.

 

[Dean Roddey]

So if the DIY market is nearly zero, what do you get out of it working with the community on sites such as this? Just curious.

If I was a pro customer and saw the price difference, I would not be happy about it either so I can see where you and the pro's are coming from. So if the price is the same, I suppose this creates an interesting option to me at least. I could have a pro install it and perhaps give me minimal support to get it going. Then I could take it from there...a DIY/pro hybrid, haha.

Actually, you partially answered your own question. Though the market for pure DIYers is small, the market for half and halfers is considerably larger. There are more folks who would like the assistance of a professional, but wouldn't want a pure pro solution that they couldn't then take over. With the price being the same, we will remove the restriction of pros working with DIY customers.

And there are still some DIYer customers who have quite large systems. Our biggest single system out there is a DIY system. In the old scheme we could only charge the regular DIY price, even for such a large system. Now, we can get a more realistic amount of revenues from such customers.

 

[Dean Roddey]

Yes, I would like to know too - maybe an announcement on the CQC board of the plans would be appropriate.

We will, when the details are fully nailed down and written up. This post was just a heads up for folks who haven't purchased and were thinking about it. For them, it's a fairly black and white decision, and the benefit for them to buy now won't be changed by any small tweaks we might make to our plans, and my intention wasn't to get into the details involved for existing customers.

 

[Dean Roddey]

plus there will be a per touch screen client price.

How exactly is that calculated? I mean....at this point, CQC has no idea if it's being displayed on my regular desktop PC or on a touchscreen monitor I picked up on ebay.

That doesn't literally mean touch screen. It just means graphical client (i.e. IV or RIVA client), whatever it happens to physically be running on.

 

[Scrambled]

Dean-

What is meant by this statement ?

There will likely be some small fee for major version upgrades. But, since everyone is now going to be paying per component, we can't just let everyone else have them for free. It wouldn't be fair. So new components will be made available for a price. A discount for existing customers of course.

Are you talking about the drivers? Or for each PC / touchscreen?

Steve