Upstart and/or HLC

[LinuxPoobah]

I have a new construction home (I haven't moved in yet) with following 146 HAI switches:

600W Dimmer/35A00-1/Qty 33
600W Non-dimmer/35A00-3/Qty 67
Aux switch/37A00-1/Qty 35
1000W Dimmer/Qty 8
15A Relay Switch/Qty 3

I plan on getting an OmniPro II in a few weeks along with a couple 8 button scene/status switch (38A00-2).

I have a PIM and appropriate cables to use Upstart.

What are the benefits/draw backs of the following scenarios:

* Upstart and HLC
* HLC only

Are there other scenarios I should be aware of?

My preference would be to start tinkering/playing now with Upstart.

 

[fcwilt]

I have not used the HAI product but I have another brand of Home Automation controller and am using UPB devices for my lighting.

In my situation UPstart alone is used to configure the UPB device network.

The HA controller then can read the UPB network configuration and determine the number and kind of UPB devices that exist in the network. The HA controller can then control the UPB devices but it cannot alter the UPB network configuration in any way.

 

[AnthonyZ]

In most situations, you'll most likely want to use a combination of HLC and UpStart. HLC allows your OP to track status much more efficiently and is therefore good for when controlling a single light at a time. On the other hand, if you're wanting to set lighting scenes, adjust ramp rates, max level, etc, you'l absolutely want to use UpStart. First, HLC does a terrible job of "scene" programming. It adjusts a single load at a time and is very kludgy. This includes "All On" and "All Off" types scenarios. Where you have 100-110 loads, an "All On" or "Off" scene could theoretically take a full minute to execute. Not cool.

 

[fcwilt]

First, HLC does a terrible job of "scene" programming. It adjusts a single load at a time and is very kludgy.

So HLC doesn't use UPB links but implements scenes internally?

 

[AnthonyZ]

First, HLC does a terrible job of "scene" programming. It adjusts a single load at a time and is very kludgy.

So HLC doesn't use UPB links but implements scenes internally?

That's correct. HLC is basically HAI's own proprietary implementation. The way it's set up, it commands a single device at a time.

 

[Brian Yokum]

HLC does use UPB links. First, please understand that HAI Lighting Control devices ARE standard UPB devices. HLC mode is a special UPB address assignment that HAI controllers can use to simplify scene lighting on a room-by-room basis. HLC allocates 8 UPB addresses to each room. The first UPB address in each room is reserved for an HLC room controller. The next 7 addresses may be used for dimmers or other UPB devices. When configured through an HAI controller, 6 UPB links are allocated to each room (ON/OFF/A/B/C/D) and each dimmer is configured with these 6 links and default levels (100%,0%,80%,60%,40%,20%). These levels can be easily adjusted by a homeowner. Pressing any button on the room controller will activate the respective link for that scene and ALL dimmers in that room will transition simultaneously. After the link is activated, the HAI controller will poll each of the dimmers in that room for its resulting level. All of this happens automatically if HLC mode is being used.

Where there is some confusion is when people wish to create their own scene groups that don't correspond with HAI HLC implementation. In these cases, UPStart can be used to assign links to the desired dimmers and these links can be activated through the HAI controller. In this case, the HAI controller will not automatically poll for the status of each of these dimmers because it doesn't maintain a database of which UPB devices are controlled by which links. In this case, it will be necessary to program the HAI controller to poll the dimmers after the scene is activated to obtain the current lighting level.

UPStart can also be used to adjust fade rates, LED functionality, and to add additional ALL ON/ALL OFF links. IF ALL ON/ALL OFF links are set up using UPStart, all affected devices can turn on/off simultaneously. If this is not done, in HLC mode the HAI controller will perform the ALL ON/ALL OFF in HLC mode by send the on/off for each room individually. This can result in a slightly delayed room-by-room effect.

HLC mode was created to allow scene lighting to be set up in a basic room-by-room configuration with minimal effort on the part of the installer. Simply place the desired HLC device in setup mode, press configure on the HAI console/touchscreen, and the complete setup for that switch will be loaded with no further effort. It does not take the place of complex lighting scenes set up by UPStart. It is a simple solution for many.

 

[LinuxPoobah]

UPStart can also be used to adjust fade rates, LED functionality, and to add additional ALL ON/ALL OFF links. IF ALL ON/ALL OFF links are set up using UPStart, all affected devices can turn on/off simultaneously. If this is not done, in HLC mode the HAI controller will perform the ALL ON/ALL OFF in HLC mode by send the on/off for each room individually. This can result in a slightly delayed room-by-room effect.

Brian thanks very much for your input!

I haven't gotten my OmniPro II yet. I do have 146 HAI switches (virtually every switch in my new 12,000 sq ft home) installed and I have being playing around with Upstart. I did see the existing 80%, 60%, etc links.

What I've done so far is remove all those pre-existing factory defined links and define my own links (including ALL LIGHTS ON, and ALL OFF). I've gotten things working well so far and have assigned various links to activate based on double-tap on certain switches. I think I've done pretty much what I want and what I can do until I can incorporate conditional logic and triggers based on events that the controller will provide.

Have I shot myself in the foot by deleting all those factory defined links? What's the best practice for using Upstart and HLC/OmniPro II?

BTW, I installed one phase coupler (the HAI one), and signal strength is great (one main panel and 2 sub-panels). My noise reading is zero although the only thing plugged in is my kitchen appliances and my home has it's very own brand new (freaking expensive, grumble grumble) transformer. The house is about 135 feet long, two levels plus a loft. So far so good.

 

[nexus99]

UPStart can also be used to adjust fade rates, LED functionality, and to add additional ALL ON/ALL OFF links. IF ALL ON/ALL OFF links are set up using UPStart, all affected devices can turn on/off simultaneously. If this is not done, in HLC mode the HAI controller will perform the ALL ON/ALL OFF in HLC mode by send the on/off for each room individually. This can result in a slightly delayed room-by-room effect.

Brian thanks very much for your input!

I haven't gotten my OmniPro II yet. I do have 146 HAI switches (virtually every switch in my new 12,000 sq ft home) installed and I have being playing around with Upstart. I did see the existing 80%, 60%, etc links.

What I've done so far is remove all those pre-existing factory defined links and define my own links (including ALL LIGHTS ON, and ALL OFF). I've gotten things working well so far and have assigned various links to activate based on double-tap on certain switches. I think I've done pretty much what I want and what I can do until I can incorporate conditional logic and triggers based on events that the controller will provide.

Have I shot myself in the foot by deleting all those factory defined links? What's the best practice for using Upstart and HLC/OmniPro II?

BTW, I installed one phase coupler (the HAI one), and signal strength is great (one main panel and 2 sub-panels). My noise reading is zero although the only thing plugged in is my kitchen appliances and my home has it's very own brand new (freaking expensive, grumble grumble) transformer. The house is about 135 feet long, two levels plus a loft. So far so good.

12,000 sq ft is large

 

[Brian Yokum]

LinuxPoobah,

If you are using your own link assignments you should set the HAI controller to UPB rather than HLC for each of the rooms. This avoids conflicts when the HAI controller sees links being activated that it would normally use for HLC mode. You should also avoid links 241-250 because the HAI controller uses these links in both UPB and HLC modes. Activating links in this manner will not update the status of each individual dimmer. You'll need to set up some programs to poll for status from the individual dimmers after link activation if you desire to track this status. This is a fundamental thing with UPB since dimmers don't automatically report their status after they are affected by a link activation. This is one of the reasons why we created HLC mode.

 

[AnthonyZ]

Somewhat related to the topic, HAI announced that they are now capable of configuring HLC and UPB via PC ACcess. http://blog.homeauto.com/blogarticle.asp?ID=536 I plan on "playing" with it as soon as I find a free moment...

 

[Basildane]

HLC does use UPB links. First, please understand that HAI Lighting Control devices ARE standard UPB devices. HLC mode is a special UPB address assignment that HAI controllers can use to simplify scene lighting on a room-by-room basis. HLC allocates 8 UPB addresses to each room. The first UPB address in each room is reserved for an HLC room controller. The next 7 addresses may be used for dimmers or other UPB devices. When configured through an HAI controller, 6 UPB links are allocated to each room (ON/OFF/A/B/C/D) and each dimmer is configured with these 6 links and default levels (100%,0%,80%,60%,40%,20%). These levels can be easily adjusted by a homeowner. Pressing any button on the room controller will activate the respective link for that scene and ALL dimmers in that room will transition simultaneously. After the link is activated, the HAI controller will poll each of the dimmers in that room for its resulting level. All of this happens automatically if HLC mode is being used.

Where there is some confusion is when people wish to create their own scene groups that don't correspond with HAI HLC implementation. In these cases, UPStart can be used to assign links to the desired dimmers and these links can be activated through the HAI controller. In this case, the HAI controller will not automatically poll for the status of each of these dimmers because it doesn't maintain a database of which UPB devices are controlled by which links. In this case, it will be necessary to program the HAI controller to poll the dimmers after the scene is activated to obtain the current lighting level.

UPStart can also be used to adjust fade rates, LED functionality, and to add additional ALL ON/ALL OFF links. IF ALL ON/ALL OFF links are set up using UPStart, all affected devices can turn on/off simultaneously. If this is not done, in HLC mode the HAI controller will perform the ALL ON/ALL OFF in HLC mode by send the on/off for each room individually. This can result in a slightly delayed room-by-room effect.

HLC mode was created to allow scene lighting to be set up in a basic room-by-room configuration with minimal effort on the part of the installer. Simply place the desired HLC device in setup mode, press configure on the HAI console/touchscreen, and the complete setup for that switch will be loaded with no further effort. It does not take the place of complex lighting scenes set up by UPStart. It is a simple solution for many.

I have an OmniPro II, 3.2b.

I need all lights to snap on 100% on alarm. So based on what you said here, I removed "all on" from each HLC room.
I picked an unused Link, UPB Link240.
Then I added an All On function that sends a UPB Link240, followed by Status Request.

I used Upstart to add UPB Link240 to every light, with 100% on as the command.

No, on any alarm, all lights snap to full on immediately.
It seems to be working. Is there anything wrong with this method?