Water Shut off Valve Rant - sort of...
- Thread starter gatchel
- Start date
Desert_AIP
Senior Member
With the elk you can run it off of a 12V battery.
As I stated above, I have my Watercop 110VAC valve plugged into an APS 500 series Uninterruptable Power Supply.
With the Watercop, the specs state "1 to 3 seconds" to open or close the valve. I activate the output for 5 seconds.
The Watercop also has status output for both open and closed states. So I have a loop that issues an automatic close command when a leak is detected and checks the status of the valve, if it's not closed it keeps sending the close command and checking the status.
Once it is opened or closed the relay is deenergized. So no signal is necessary to keep the valve in either position once the transition is complete.
apostolakisl
Senior Member
The Elk valve stays open when 12v is applied to the "open" control wire and closed when applied to the "closed" control wire. You need a relay with both NO and NC sides (which is how the Elk relays all are).
The power is always applied to one side or the other, when it reaches it's open or closed status it stops and sits there until power is switched to the other leg. The control wire also supplies the power that actually operates the unit.
There is a fourth wire that will output 12v when the valve is open if you want to monitor it that way.
I have a 12v wall wart plugged in at my M1G which supplies the power. It is plugged into a UPS so the water would still turn on/off in event of power failure. You can use the Elk's 12v power supply if you don't have too many other things that might exceed the total allowed amps.
The power is always applied to one side or the other, when it reaches it's open or closed status it stops and sits there until power is switched to the other leg. The control wire also supplies the power that actually operates the unit.
There is a fourth wire that will output 12v when the valve is open if you want to monitor it that way.
I have a 12v wall wart plugged in at my M1G which supplies the power. It is plugged into a UPS so the water would still turn on/off in event of power failure. You can use the Elk's 12v power supply if you don't have too many other things that might exceed the total allowed amps.
tmbrown97
Senior Member
my coworkers generally don't get my humor and think I'm just being a ****.
Yes, a relay to kill the well pump is a perfect solution.
apostolakisl
Senior Member
Just consider the size of your pressure tank. It won't be a "runaway" situation but it will empty.
drozwood90
Senior Member
one of these?
http://www.getfloodstop.com/Water_Heater_FloodStop_p/fs34npt.htm
http://www.getfloodstop.com/Water_Heater_FloodStop_p/fs34npt.htm
Thank you, thank you, thank you. The KISS method. You just talked me out of a $400 valve and the opening of my plumping system (I hate plumbing).
You bring up a valid point. Once the leak occurs the area is already wet. The valve would stop the water instantly but if the break is before the valve on the pressure switch or incoming plastic line (submersible pump well) the the valve isn't going to do squat. I was going to have both the valve and a contactor but in reality I only need the contactor. The drawdown on my well tank in the 40-60 psi range is 9.7 gallons. I wouldn't have to empty the shop vac more than once... That's perfect.
Maybe I will still get the valve at some point. I planned on adding another storage tank eventually. Maybe then would be the best time for the valve, we'll see. The contactor I can do very easily and will do right away now that the idea has been validated. The runaway situation is really what I was worried about too as my well will pump 7 to 10 gallons per minute with no restrictions for 20 minutes minimum. That's a lot of water...
Madcodger, thanks again. :rockon:
Well, sometimes it pays to be a little bit cheap. I was ready to add a WSV to my system at the old house, when we decided to sell. When we bought this one, with a well, it just seemed that shutting off the well would work. It's true that the tank will still empty, but as previously mentioned, the area will already be wet if there's a break so it becomes all about the volume of water you can tolerate, to my way of thinking.
apostolakisl
Senior Member
If the pressure tank only holds 10 gallons the difference between a valve and a relay for the well pump would probably not be that much. I assume a 10 gallon tank is half water and half air.
Probably the pressure left in the pipes after shutting off the valve would still leak 1 or 2 gallons as compared to maybe 5 or 6 from a pressure tank. That difference could be enough to cause a lot more damage, or it may make no difference depending on where the leak is.
A relay is cheaper and easier to hook up. Sweating the WSV on and wiring it up took me a couple of hours and I had to buy about $30 of additional fittings.
To all of the people looking at cheaper valves than the Elk, I say get the Elk from a "discount" supplier even without a warranty and you will be better off. The WSV won't fail you.
Don't use sprinkler valves. They are designed as normally closed for 99.9% of their life. Running them open for hours and hours every day is going to result in constant maintenance (solonoid and diaphragm failure). Plus, they aren't built to the same level of leak failure. They are intended to be buried in the ground where a leak is not a big deal so they don't put the resources into making them a 99.999% won't leak valve. They are plastic and rubber, not stailess steel. Think how stupid you will feel when you get water damage from a leak in the valve that was put in to prevent water leaks. That would be ironic to say the least.
I have the Elk WSV which is a solid, heavy duty, serious valve. It has run flawlessly for two years. I have sprinkler valves as well. In two years I have already had to repair one.
Probably the pressure left in the pipes after shutting off the valve would still leak 1 or 2 gallons as compared to maybe 5 or 6 from a pressure tank. That difference could be enough to cause a lot more damage, or it may make no difference depending on where the leak is.
A relay is cheaper and easier to hook up. Sweating the WSV on and wiring it up took me a couple of hours and I had to buy about $30 of additional fittings.
To all of the people looking at cheaper valves than the Elk, I say get the Elk from a "discount" supplier even without a warranty and you will be better off. The WSV won't fail you.
Don't use sprinkler valves. They are designed as normally closed for 99.9% of their life. Running them open for hours and hours every day is going to result in constant maintenance (solonoid and diaphragm failure). Plus, they aren't built to the same level of leak failure. They are intended to be buried in the ground where a leak is not a big deal so they don't put the resources into making them a 99.999% won't leak valve. They are plastic and rubber, not stailess steel. Think how stupid you will feel when you get water damage from a leak in the valve that was put in to prevent water leaks. That would be ironic to say the least.
I have the Elk WSV which is a solid, heavy duty, serious valve. It has run flawlessly for two years. I have sprinkler valves as well. In two years I have already had to repair one.
I'll add my 2 cents. Any actuated ball valve should do the job. There are a number of manufacturers that offer them, from PVC to brass to stainless steel, and significantly cheaper than some of the prices being listed here. I have my place setup with an actuated ball valve on my supply (before it enters the building), with sensor stations at every possible location that a water leak might occur. If a leak is detected, then the water to the entire building is shut-off minimizing damage.
I think you mean any valve that is approved for potable water...big difference.
Since my supply line is PVC, I used a Spears True Union 2000 with their Electro 50 actuator. However, the actuator is only rated at NEMA 4X, which I will probably regret.
Doesn't that go without saying?
There is also a big difference between valves approved for potable water and lead free valves approved for potable water. One might also point out the difference between an industrial grade actuated ball valve and a commercial grade, or electrical vs pneumatic actuators.
The point is, you don't need to spend $500+ for an actuated ball valve.
