Water Shut off Valve Rant - sort of...

Yes, me! I have the Elk WSV (which I spent a lot less than $500 for, maybe $350 at most. It shuts off 30 minutes after armed away. It has been doing this for 2 years now. The pipes stay presurized so I don't think there is any risk of water hammer damage effect. Furthermore, I have water hammer arrestors and lastly the valve turns on gradual enough that it doesn't slam the pipes.

The 30 minute delay gives enough time for the laundry or dish washer to finish. This assumes that it was started at least 20 minutes before leaving. Every once in a while my wife starts it and leaves right away which causes an error on the appliance.

I wouldn't get a pvc valve. It might be cheaper but the pvc ball valve on my sprinkler system failed in 1 year with virually no use. Stick with stainless or brass. This is something you want to install and never worry about again.



Oops. I forgot about dishwasher/washing machine.. My dishwasher can run for up to 3 hours and the clothes washer can take about 1.5 to 2 hours. That would hurt WAF if she came back and nether was finished. So, I would have to set my turnoff timer to be over 3 hours after start - better than nothing I suppose.

Or of course, monitor if they are on....
 
What kind of dishwasher do you have that takes 3 hours to run a cycle, and a clothes washer that takes 1.5 to 2 hours to complete a cycle?
 
The dishwasher probably is done using water in 40 minutes or so. Most of that time is the drying.

Some of the new washers can use water more than an hour into things, but I haven't heard of that long.
 
What kind of dishwasher do you have that takes 3 hours to run a cycle, and a clothes washer that takes 1.5 to 2 hours to complete a cycle?

The dishwasher is a Miele. Its normal cycle varies with how dirty the load is - but it averages around 2 hours and 48 minutes (or so the little display tells me). It has short wash cycles - but we rarely use them. Takes a long time - but items come out exceptionally clean. Much better than my previous bosch.


The washing machine is an Asko - runs off of 220V and only takes cold water. It has its own built in water heater - so the run time ranges from 1 hour for a cold load to 2 hours depending on the temperature selected (it can heat water up to 95 Celsius).






 
But I would agree with the other posters that much of the dishwashing cycle is actually the drying time. I really doubt your dishes are being washed with water for almost three hours. I'd time a couple of the cycles that you use and determine how long the system actually uses water. Once it is done, it might sit there another hour or so heating the dishes to dry them, but you don't need the water turned on for that to work.
 
But I would agree with the other posters that much of the dishwashing cycle is actually the drying time. I really doubt your dishes are being washed with water for almost three hours. I'd time a couple of the cycles that you use and determine how long the system actually uses water. Once it is done, it might sit there another hour or so heating the dishes to dry them, but you don't need the water turned on for that to work.


Same with the washer. It might fill with water that last time and then spend a long time heating it up to 95 c. Wow, that is hot!! Seriously, are you so stinky that you need to boil your clothes? Only Europeans could be that stinky!
 
But I would agree with the other posters that much of the dishwashing cycle is actually the drying time. I really doubt your dishes are being washed with water for almost three hours. I'd time a couple of the cycles that you use and determine how long the system actually uses water. Once it is done, it might sit there another hour or so heating the dishes to dry them, but you don't need the water turned on for that to work.

Yeah - I will have to check how long it "dries" for. Like most European machines it doesn't have a heating element for drying and instead relies on convective drying - which essentially means your plastics stay wet but everything else is fine.
 
Same with the washer. It might fill with water that last time and then spend a long time heating it up to 95 c. Wow, that is hot!! Seriously, are you so stinky that you need to boil your clothes? Only Europeans could be that stinky!



It uses water pretty much until the end - because after the wash cycle it will rinse the clothes right before it moves into spin. The washer does go to extremes, 95 C water and 1800 RPM spin. You can do both in the same cycle if you really want to destroy your clothes :)

We are getting really off topic :) But, if I do install a valve I need to see how long these things run or detect if they are running.
 
I have on-demand water heaters, so no issue there. Assuming the tank is already hot when the water shuts off, there shouldn't be any expansion anyway. The heater might turn on at 120 and off at 130? That won't do much in the way of expansion. Certainly going from 40 to 120 might be an issue.

Yet another advantage of on-demand water heaters. Our morning routine includes two or three people showering and starting the dish washer within an hour before heading out the door. Probably not uncommon. If I ever install a WSV I'd plan to have it close in AWAY mode, so it would encounter worse-case expansion frequently. As building codes are changing to require an expansion tank and one-way check valve at the meter, this eventually won't be an issue. A friend in a St Louis suburb recently had a plumber replace his water heater, and he had to add the expansion tank even though there was no requirement to install a check valve at the main feed as with new construction in his area.
 
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