Where is that confounded neutral?

[Sandpiper]

OK. So we all agree now. Let me summarize.

1. Within a circuit, it is OK to tie neutrals from various loads (on that circuit) together.

2. It is not OK to tie neutrals from different circuits together (except for the multiwire branch circuit). Neutrals for different circuits come together only at the breaker panel.

3. The multiwire branch circuit is where two circuits of equal capacity and on opposite phases may share a neutral. In this case, the neutral is not overloaded because it carries only the inbalance of the two circuits, ie. the difference in the two circuit currents instead of the addition of the two circuit currents if they were in-phase.

4. As already mentioned in the thread, although the code allows sharing a neutral for a multiwire branch circuit, is not good practice because of safety concerns.

 

[Jim Doolittle]

Thanks Sandpiper.

I ended up going to the spotlight nearest the switch and used its neutral. I have two US2-40s working great now and even got HomeSeer to update them when locally controlled.

I ran into some trouble with one other X10 controlled light that I am updating to UPB. The light was controlled by XPS3-W master and XPSS-W slave. Somehow I have managed to get confused with the wiring and cannot get a voltage tester to show line voltage while circuit is active.

Any suggestions (besides hiring an electrician :blink that would help me figure this out. It must be something easy because I find that I overthink things and miss the obvious.

 

[Sandpiper]

Thanks Sandpiper.
Any suggestions (besides hiring an electrician B)) that would help me figure this out. It must be something easy because I find that I overthink things and miss the obvious.

The XPS3 comes with a wiring diagram, so I assume you could wire it if you knew which wires were which. There are four wires: hot (line), neutral, load, and control. You should be able to determine line, and neutral easily. So the problem is probably in the load or control.

The load wire is the one going to the lights. It may be wired directly to the load from the master (XPS3 box), or it may be wired from the slave box. The key, I think, will be to determine which is the traveller cable. The traveller is the wire that connects the two three way switches together, it will be a three conductor, and normally has a black, white and red conductors. In the traveller cable, use the red for the "control" wire, and use the white for the neutral. The black may be used or left spare depending on where the load is fed from.

If the load is fed from the master box, leave the black traveller wire spare. If the load is fed from the slave box, use the black traveller wire to feed the load from the slave box.

I know this is confusing. The key is to identify all the wires, knowing where they go and what they do.

 

[Jim Doolittle]

Not too confusing. At least conceptually. However, "in the field" is another issue. I do have load and neutral identified and I thought I had the travellers identified. Trouble is finding the hot. Problem is I check my voltmeter at a live outlet and get ~120V and nothing with any of the switch wires even after accounting for the travelling wires and the role they play.

Anyway, today is another day and I will go back over everything. It is likely that I overlooked something. I know the circuit is getting power because other lights controlled by another switch on same circuit are working.

 

[Sandpiper]

Not too confusing. At least conceptually. However, "in the field" is another issue. I do have load and neutral identified and I thought I had the travellers identified. Trouble is finding the hot.

The hot might be at the slave end. If this is the case, you can use the unused black wire in the traveller cable to feed it to the master end.

 

[Jim Doolittle]

Sandpiper,

Hopefully your still around because I am in a new snag. The US11-30 is fully wired now.

The slave switch box had three wires with one being hot. I connected it to a traveller to bring it back to the US11-30. That leaves one wire. The USR needs a neutral and a wire to connect the brown/white wire of USR to brown/white of US11-30. Only got one wire and no feasible way to pull another wire into the box.

If I cannot figure this out, I will have to put the X10 XPSS-W and XPS3-W back in place and use the UPBs elsewhere.

Thanks for your help.

 

[Jim Doolittle]

Event5 (are you browsing CocoonTech today?) posted this on the HomeSeer Message Board

It is actually the same circuit. It does the same thing. x10 slaves can be used with UPB. I checked with SA and PCS about this. The only difference is that you must reverse the Hot and neutral if controlling a SA master.

and this

Jim,
Yes, swap the wires and the x10 slave should work with SA switches. I have not had a need to make the LED operate in sink so I can not address the other part of the question.
In the long run, using another US-1130 as the slave is a better solution. I usually just set all LEDs to Solid green so all are the same all the time. I do not worry about the on off indication at the switch.
Dave

So, if that is correct, then I could skip the USR and put the XPSS-W X10 slave switch back in as it does use a HOT. Sure want to make sure that is correct before trying it.

 

[Jim Doolittle]

Should be done soon. I pulled 15' of wire through straight length of conduit for HOT from another box going to same set of lights. I now have HOT and two travellers at slave (and that is the box that I do not even want to try to pull any new wire to). Will use one traveller as neutral and other for brown/white wire connection to/from master/slave.

Read somewhere that I could use HOT for LED of USR. If not, will cap it.