The Elk is the panel which I favor. If you are planning for complex rule sets you may run out of room in both the Elk and the HAI. The competition for the hometroller would probably be CQC and Premise. Both can be loaded on low power XP box.
Which system for me? Lighting for today, with the potential for further HA.
- Thread starter Deephaven
- Start date
The Elk is the panel which I favor. If you are planning for complex rule sets you may run out of room in both the Elk and the HAI. The competition for the hometroller would probably be CQC and Premise. Both can be loaded on low power XP box.
The more I search the more confusing this gets. The HA spreadsheet shows what "works" together, but not at all how they interface and what will do what I need (which is still being defined as I learn more).
I don't mind a PC control as I have a dedicated PC in the house that is already mounted in the room where the control will be, but I'd like to insure that things work reliably.
Perhaps a rudimentary question that is alluding me would be how the Omni or Elk actually control lights. Do they each know the status of every switch and what position it is in? Does the controller then make sure that a scene happens when a scene button is pressed? Do they run some internal ladder logic like a PLC? If so, is there a description of what they can and cannot do with and without a pc attached?
I don't mind a PC control as I have a dedicated PC in the house that is already mounted in the room where the control will be, but I'd like to insure that things work reliably.
Perhaps a rudimentary question that is alluding me would be how the Omni or Elk actually control lights. Do they each know the status of every switch and what position it is in? Does the controller then make sure that a scene happens when a scene button is pressed? Do they run some internal ladder logic like a PLC? If so, is there a description of what they can and cannot do with and without a pc attached?
hucker
Active Member
In the minority here (with Bruce) but I love my Homevision Pro with a rock solid CADDX security. It doesn't require a PC to make everything work unless you want the web server and some other internet related functions, otherwise you get IR, HVAC integration, Security integration, 8 Relay, 8 Input, 8 Output, 64 temp sensors, TV Interface and more programming space than you are likely to ever fill for the base price. Supports X10 and UPB. The documentation is very good too. Craig did a very nice job designing the system and has worked well.
First off, I’d like to apologize for my noob thread. I shouldn’t have asked what lighting technology but instead stated what I want to do and asked for directions on what to search for. I was hoping for a quick solution, but am very glad that I have taken a step back as I had no idea what all could be done and actually didn’t even really know how to search for it. I hope I am learning quickly though.
So to better my focus, I put together a block diagram of what I’d like to do, but am looking for recommendations on what hardware/software I should use.
To summarize the automation desires so far:
1) Audio
2) Lighting – retrofit (wireless) in metal boxes with a Neutral available
3) Security – including Video
4) TV
5) Remote access via the web, even better if I can do it from my Blackberry
6) HVAC
7) Irrigation- eventually
8) PC Controllable from multiple locations in the house including a laptop being used wirelessly
Being I have never done this, I tried to mimic IVB’s layout on his webpage for a block diagram. I borrowed his color coding as well, hopefully it is legible (I suck at Powerpoint).
Before going further, I thought I should also share what I have and what I have done. I did all of this before searching for lighting and finding CT to automate the house.
1) Whole house computer in basement. Can be wired to all TV’s in house for both TV and video (I ran both analog, 5 runs of RG6, and digital 3 runs of Cat6e)
2) Whole house audio system installed. HTD Medium system with PC RS-232 control.
3) All music is on my PC, currently using Foobar/Winamp as a Juke box: Pandora as well
4) Mediacom cable box is in the basement next to the PC with a multiplexer sending it to all the TV’s in the house. Single source, but for the two of us that is fine. Currently remote controlled, but each room has a remote repeater.
5) Honeywell Security system in basement – came with the house; seems to be only 4 zones and just switches on the doors. Obviously needs an upgrade.
So to better my focus, I put together a block diagram of what I’d like to do, but am looking for recommendations on what hardware/software I should use.
To summarize the automation desires so far:
1) Audio
2) Lighting – retrofit (wireless) in metal boxes with a Neutral available
3) Security – including Video
4) TV
5) Remote access via the web, even better if I can do it from my Blackberry
6) HVAC
7) Irrigation- eventually
8) PC Controllable from multiple locations in the house including a laptop being used wirelessly
Being I have never done this, I tried to mimic IVB’s layout on his webpage for a block diagram. I borrowed his color coding as well, hopefully it is legible (I suck at Powerpoint).
Before going further, I thought I should also share what I have and what I have done. I did all of this before searching for lighting and finding CT to automate the house.
1) Whole house computer in basement. Can be wired to all TV’s in house for both TV and video (I ran both analog, 5 runs of RG6, and digital 3 runs of Cat6e)
2) Whole house audio system installed. HTD Medium system with PC RS-232 control.
3) All music is on my PC, currently using Foobar/Winamp as a Juke box: Pandora as well
4) Mediacom cable box is in the basement next to the PC with a multiplexer sending it to all the TV’s in the house. Single source, but for the two of us that is fine. Currently remote controlled, but each room has a remote repeater.
5) Honeywell Security system in basement – came with the house; seems to be only 4 zones and just switches on the doors. Obviously needs an upgrade.
IVB
Senior Member
is the honeywell system under a monitoring contract? If so, how much longer/can you break it?
Also, i'm having a work/firewall issue with seeing the full version of your block diagram, but if you have a PC you're willing to leave on 24x7 for this (ie, SageTV server/mp3/etc), that same box can also handle your HA engine. (well, i know CQC won't interfere with SageTV, works great together). Although you could get a super-low power device to run CQC/HS/etc, I don't see the point as you could have zero incremental watts by just using that existing server.
Also, i'm having a work/firewall issue with seeing the full version of your block diagram, but if you have a PC you're willing to leave on 24x7 for this (ie, SageTV server/mp3/etc), that same box can also handle your HA engine. (well, i know CQC won't interfere with SageTV, works great together). Although you could get a super-low power device to run CQC/HS/etc, I don't see the point as you could have zero incremental watts by just using that existing server.
No contract 
Just moved into the house a few months ago and haven't even activated it yet.
I do have a PC already in the basement room that is currently on 24/7. I could upgrade it as required with whatever hardware necessary as I plan to leave it on as a server. Currently it is my music server and internet portal.
Just moved into the house a few months ago and haven't even activated it yet.I do have a PC already in the basement room that is currently on 24/7. I could upgrade it as required with whatever hardware necessary as I plan to leave it on as a server. Currently it is my music server and internet portal.
Hopefully it isn't inappropriate to link to another forum, but the MCA-66 Audio system I have has been automated by Rob Walker with CQC as outlined in this thread.
http://www.charmedquark.com/vb_forum/showt...6468&page=3
Considering he has offered to share the driver that he used should this be a reason for me to lean towards CQC?
http://www.charmedquark.com/vb_forum/showt...6468&page=3
Considering he has offered to share the driver that he used should this be a reason for me to lean towards CQC?
IVB
Senior Member
Ability to use existing equipment is always nice, but I would think that you could write a driver to work with any package. Of course, that assumes you're technical enough to write stuff, which i'm not.
I went another way, which was to pick a package then sell off everything that i owned that didn't have a driver, and buy stuff that did. In my case it wasn't nearly as expensive as the MCA-66, it was just a Denon 4808 with no serial capabilities, so i admit it's not an apples->apples comparison.
To me, the biggest reason to go with CQC would be the ludicrously low current sale price ($333 for a handful of days at most, after which it reverts to $595). Considering what you get for that, the price per function point is way lower than anything else out there.
I went another way, which was to pick a package then sell off everything that i owned that didn't have a driver, and buy stuff that did. In my case it wasn't nearly as expensive as the MCA-66, it was just a Denon 4808 with no serial capabilities, so i admit it's not an apples->apples comparison.
To me, the biggest reason to go with CQC would be the ludicrously low current sale price ($333 for a handful of days at most, after which it reverts to $595). Considering what you get for that, the price per function point is way lower than anything else out there.
Possibly. Someone already has though and hopefully will share.
I must say that I was a bit scared based on how technical I thought setting CQC up would be from seeing the scripts, I only had two terms of programming and it seems like forever ago. After watching IVB's recorded webinars, I now have the opposite feeling and am excited to implement many things I never thought possible. Considering I was frightened that the sale might end today, I bought a copy of CQC and will be using it as my HA GUI.
Thank you all for the help so far, I am learning rapidly with the forum. At first glance the HA spreadsheet didn't tell me what I needed to know, but now with some background I realize how powerful of a reference this is. Nice work on putting it together!!
edit: Situation changed, I bought CQC question no longer valid or helpful in the thread
I am trying to decide on the lighting/security panel and keep seeing references that M1 doesn’t know when a switch is manually activated except with ViziaRF. Are there any true 2-way switches/technologies that work with the Elk?
Or is there a logical work around for this? I could do some regular polling, but that won't help with automation.
with UPB
http://www.cocoontech.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=12065
with Z-wave, except ViziaRF
http://www.cocoontech.com/forums/index.php...&hl=polling
Does the OmniPro keep track of all manual UPB switches? I couldn’t find any info searching on it saying either way.
Or is there a logical work around for this? I could do some regular polling, but that won't help with automation.
with UPB
http://www.cocoontech.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=12065
with Z-wave, except ViziaRF
http://www.cocoontech.com/forums/index.php...&hl=polling
Does the OmniPro keep track of all manual UPB switches? I couldn’t find any info searching on it saying either way.
Steve
Senior Member
WRT UPB, the M1 (or Omni) does know when either they control the switch or the switch is manually operated. The issue is a UPB switch does not send status when activated by a link. That is problematic when controlling several switches like in a scene via links. There are workarounds, like let the M1 see the link and set the scene (send the individual commands to switches), or use software that will poll switches.
Ah, that makes things more clear, thank you. From my math the ViziaRF+ 600w switches are about $7 cheaper than the PCS UPB's and $10 more than the Simply Automated ones. My house has 44 light switches if I do them all and the difference of a few hundred dollars isn't worth swaying me for. So I guess I will order a PCS and SA and see which ones I prefer.
Last choice I need to make is on the security panel.
At the moment, these are the items that I would like to attach to the security panel. All audio/video will be controlled via CQC, CCTV most likely recorded on Avermedia and a PC.
• Door sensors- hardwired, Glass Breakage - wireless, Occupancy/Motion – some wired, some wireless
• 3 Cameras, CCTV -- hardwired
• Lighting – 2 3way, 2 fan, 20 (40 max) lights, 1 timer – PCS/SAI
• Thermostat and zone control – 3 or 4 – (Retrofit current analog)
• Doorbell
• Irrigation – 8 zones – hardwired is fine
• Zone temperature
OmniPro
OmniPro II controller in enclosure. HAI20A00-2, UPB PIM, RJ-31x
Transformer ELKTRG2440
Battery POW1270
wireless receiver HAI42A00-2
16 zone expander HAI10A06
LCD surface mount HAI33A00-1
HAI33A00-3 Flush mount kit
• Doesn’t include Cellular Backup
ELK
Base system, ElkM1GSYS4
Wireless Expander M1XRF2G
Serial, Lighting, Thermostat: ELKM1XSP
16 zone expander ELKM1XIN
UPB Setup Serial Controller
• Doesn’t include cellular backup
The ELK is ~$500 less based on these equipment lists.
Are there other things that I am missing in my comparison to make this fair?
I will buy the thermostats at a later date as well as integrating the lights, security, and home audio are my first priorities.
Last choice I need to make is on the security panel.
At the moment, these are the items that I would like to attach to the security panel. All audio/video will be controlled via CQC, CCTV most likely recorded on Avermedia and a PC.
• Door sensors- hardwired, Glass Breakage - wireless, Occupancy/Motion – some wired, some wireless
• 3 Cameras, CCTV -- hardwired
• Lighting – 2 3way, 2 fan, 20 (40 max) lights, 1 timer – PCS/SAI
• Thermostat and zone control – 3 or 4 – (Retrofit current analog)
• Doorbell
• Irrigation – 8 zones – hardwired is fine
• Zone temperature
OmniPro
OmniPro II controller in enclosure. HAI20A00-2, UPB PIM, RJ-31x
Transformer ELKTRG2440
Battery POW1270
wireless receiver HAI42A00-2
16 zone expander HAI10A06
LCD surface mount HAI33A00-1
HAI33A00-3 Flush mount kit
• Doesn’t include Cellular Backup
ELK
Base system, ElkM1GSYS4
Wireless Expander M1XRF2G
Serial, Lighting, Thermostat: ELKM1XSP
16 zone expander ELKM1XIN
UPB Setup Serial Controller
• Doesn’t include cellular backup
The ELK is ~$500 less based on these equipment lists.
Are there other things that I am missing in my comparison to make this fair?
I will buy the thermostats at a later date as well as integrating the lights, security, and home audio are my first priorities.
Steve
Senior Member
For your exact purposes to start that may be sort of fair, but to really be fair you need to include 4 additional M1XSPs (serial ports) and the M1XEP (Ethernet adapter) to compare to the OmniPro, since the OPII has 5 serial ports and ethernet standard. I strongly recommended the XEP for the M1, and as for the serial ports, sure, you may save a few bucks up front if you don't use them right away. But, if you add it all up apples to apples they come out around the same.
Makes sense, although I am not sure I need the extra serial ports.
Am I correct in assuming that CQC could still control other items through the add-on serial ports of the Elk/Omni or would I have to have them on the PC that CQC is running on. For instance a stereo receiver. If that is the case, I would need more for sure.
Any capabilities for my setup that would make the Omni superior?
Am I correct in assuming that CQC could still control other items through the add-on serial ports of the Elk/Omni or would I have to have them on the PC that CQC is running on. For instance a stereo receiver. If that is the case, I would need more for sure.
Any capabilities for my setup that would make the Omni superior?
