Whole House A/V - when (and how) to use Cat5e?

[fgarriel]

So I've got almost no "need" for a whole-house audio or video system right now... but I think the idea is awesome.

I'm going to be re-doing the master bathroom soon. I know that it'd be cheaper, easier, and probably higher WAF to just get a Bose Wave radio or other compact system and be done with it... but that's too low-tech for me.

I'd like to start in the bathroom, and then add more whole-house audio around the house/property. Naturally, my next step after that would be video.

There are 100 different suggestions for 100 different budgets. I'm looking for the 'best' one. I've heard people suggest using Cat5e cable around the house and use that to route audio, video, phone, TCP/IP traffic, and microwave pizzas. But I've never read *how* to do this, or why it's better than any of the other low(er) budget solutions.

Let's assume that I am willing to riddle my walls with holes and pull whatever wire I need into a single control room (if that's the 'best' solution). How do I set this up? What components do I need? IOW, how does this all work? Is there a newbie primer out there that any of you have read, written, or found helpful?

Thanks in advance!

 

[Sacedog]

Is there a newbie primer out there that any of you have read, written, or found helpful?

Yes, there is.

http://www.cocoontech.com/index.php?showtopic=6700

This is a great way to see the different possibilities for wiring. Read through it, and reply to this post if you have additional questions.

 

[sic0048]

I would say the best solution is to pull both cat5e wire and speaker wire to each zone. You have to account for a keypad or volume control as well as the speakers in each zone. The "best practice" right now is to run the speaker wire from a central location (where ever you are gong to have the audio equipment long term) to the keypad location and continue on from the keypad location to the speaker location (do not cut the wire at the kaypad location - simply "loop" it there). Then you will also need to run 1 cat5e wire from the central location to the keypad location.

You will need to do this for each foreseable zone. Run each one back to the central location (do not daisy chain the wiring).

There are many, many choices when it comes to audio distribution systems, but most of the solutions out there today will use the cat5e and/or the speaker wire to control the system. THere are some newer IP based systems that would use only cat5e wire (to both keypad locations and speaker locations) but they are very expensive right now and it sounds like you will have a normal budget for a project like this, so I wouldn't worry about wiring for that scenerio.

 

[fgarriel]

Is there a newbie primer out there that any of you have read, written, or found helpful?

Yes, there is.

http://www.cocoontech.com/index.php?showtopic=6700

This is a great way to see the different possibilities for wiring. Read through it, and reply to this post if you have additional questions.

TYVM! This will give me enough to chew on for a while.

 

[shenandoah75]

I'd add one thing to Brian's comments...

I would drop the cat5 to each volume control drop (i.e. room) as opposed to each zone (might have been the intention)....

I have (er, i am installing) 1 zone with 6 speaker pairs covering 5 rooms in my main living areas with 6 volume controls (doubled for the large living room). I am putting muting/ir VCs in all locations except the main living room which i see no reason to mute and would have line of site IR to the equipment rack. cat5 is cheap and i'd rather have it than not. I am doing something similar for the two sets of speakers in my master bed/bath (1 zone, two controls)


Dropping both to all locations gives you flexibility in doing ZON, Abus, intellpads, CAM, standard impendance matching, etc for your system now and in the future should you ever wish to switch technologies

thx
-brad

 

[sic0048]

Good call Brad. In my setting each room is a zone, but I realize not everyone may set it up like this. I just tend to forget that everyone doesn't have the same basic premise that I do.

 

[CollinR]

I use SageTV, 1 Cat5 drop is all thats needed. If it's say the master or living room then speaker wires for ceiling/wall speakers.
I also run 14/2 to there as well, this way I can remotely power the client and reboot it if need be.


If it's in a place where I can't hide the client (wallmount LCD, bathrooms) then you need the whole AV over Cat5 setup plus IR back to wherever the client will be.



Basically I say FU to all the conventional distributed audio systems, too much $ for too little performance.

 

[politics123]

I think the solution described is perfect for whole-house audio and is what I did. I got a few cheap ABUS components from ebay and had a sub $400 whole house system that looks great, and sounds "reasonable" for what it is. I can always upgrade later to roussound or niles.

How serious are you about video distribution? If you are, at a minimum you'd need another cat5 to each "video" drop, although, more realistically, you would want a full bundle (2cat5 + 2 rg6).

Note that you always have the option of installing conduit and decide later what cables to pull through it.

 

[TLCNORM]

I use SageTV, 1 Cat5 drop is all thats needed. If it's say the master or living room then speaker wires for ceiling/wall speakers.
I also run 14/2 to there as well, this way I can remotely power the client and reboot it if need be.


If it's in a place where I can't hide the client (wallmount LCD, bathrooms) then you need the whole AV over Cat5 setup plus IR back to wherever the client will be.



Basically I say FU to all the conventional distributed audio systems, too much $ for too little performance.

CollinR,
Could you elaborate? Do you have 1 HTPC distributing out to several wallmount LCD PC screens or small touchscreen PCs?
SageTV is used for whole house AV?

 

[CollinR]

You got it, instead of PCs I use LCD TVs and Hauppauge MVPs. Total client cost is usually around $400 (20" HDTV LCD, wall mount and MVP).

All you need is baseband video inputs on the TV, so nothing special. I have one that still mono and does the job. I plan to eventualy put it on my back porch. If you have the TV it's like $130 to add the MVP and client seat on the server.

All the MVPs go on a dedicated gigabit LAN.

You also need a loopback of IR to the server room if you want to watch DVDs on them. It's that or rip them to the server anyway.

It's not the best music player out there but it does work, building playlists is the way to go.

Sage handles my interfaces for CCTV, TV, DVDs, music and photos like MCE should. As usual the PC clients can be touchscreen.

Unfortunately no HD clients are yet available so if you want that too you need a PC client. However an HD client should be available before too long, expected cost ~$250 USD. They should also be HDCP compliant with DVI and SPDIF.

The audio is entirely dependent on your hardware... If you only have a TV and it has crappy speakers, your sound will suck. If you run the MVP over SPDIF optical to a nice amp and then on to nice speakers it'll be great.



The wireless MVPs don't work, don't buy one. Run the wires everywhere you can.

 

[TLCNORM]

CollinR,
I like your thinking. So 1 more time if you don't mind. I want a flat screen in my outdoor sunroom and lets say another 1 in my kitchen someday. Assuming I wouldn't mind both displaying the same thing at the same time would I:

Wiring closet could contain:

1. HTPC with ripped DVDs, music library, home movies, pics, SageTV or GBPVR as an interface/PVR.
2. Cable STB (not sure how to split this component out signal to 2 TVs???) Something like this? Component video splitter
3. IR control connecting block and emitters
4. Media MVP (only 1 with an IR emitter)

Now for the music......thinking out loud......I do own a Delta 410 multi out audio card......... But I think you were saying let MediaMVP handle this and if I want nice sound I can output to a dedicated amp. (which is already in wiring closet) homerun all speaker wires (already done in 3 zones back to wiring closet).

This setup would eliminate MVP at each location as long as I don't mind losing independent control at the clients right?

Now, I also have CCTV to wiring closet into a modulator. This could also be patched into HTPC and distributed over SageTV/MediaMVP?

I hope I make sense here. I am trying to go low budget for now and utilize stuff I have.

 

[CollinR]

I want a flat screen in my outdoor sunroom and lets say another 1 in my kitchen someday. Assuming I wouldn't mind both displaying the same thing at the same time would I:

They are totally independent displays, it's very difficult to syncronize them.

Wiring closet could contain:

1. HTPC with ripped DVDs, music library, home movies, pics, SageTV or GBPVR as an interface/PVR.
2. Cable STB (not sure how to split this component out signal to 2 TVs???) Something like this? Component video splitter
3. IR control connecting block and emitters
4. Media MVP (only 1 with an IR emitter)

1. Yup
2. ***A whole different topic, but basically component video is dead...*** google, HDCP, R5000HD and HDHomerun, right now it's hardly worth it.
3. Possibly not needed
4. The more the merrier (to a point!!!)

Now for the music......thinking out loud......I do own a Delta 410 multi out audio card......... But I think you were saying let MediaMVP handle this and if I want nice sound I can output to a dedicated amp. (which is already in wiring closet) homerun all speaker wires (already done in 3 zones back to wiring closet).

Yup,

1. MVP>TV>TV speakers
2. MVP>DD Decoder amp>Speakers (HT in a box stuff works well!)

This setup would eliminate MVP at each location as long as I don't mind losing independent control at the clients right?

Dunno I use client/server only, if you want audio only outside just tap in to the "B" side of the amp on a client and use an RF remote or control it with PDA/phone via HTTP or TCP. Sage has an optional 3rd party web interface, nothing compared to normal SageTV but awesome for integrating as you cn do tons of stuff with it.

Now, I also have CCTV to wiring closet into a modulator. This could also be patched into HTPC and distributed over SageTV/MediaMVP?

No need for modulator, just plug it into an analog port on the Sage server directly. Map it as a channel with no guide data channel 1. Go to channel 1 to see your CCTV.

I hope I make sense here. I am trying to go low budget for now and utilize stuff I have.

Have fun!