Wire fishing question

[lip]

Some advice needed:

I have a couple of windows(bay windows) that have an attic right above. I want to put some sensors on these windows so I need to fish some wire up to the attic.
From the attic I need to get the wire another 18' back towards a wall so I can fish this downstairs (directly underneith the bay window is a finished part of the basement). The wall I have to fish to has an access panel.
I'm looking at the cool tools at labor saving devices and thought I would drill a hole up top to the attic and fish the creep-zit rods up through the hole and back to the access panel 18' away. The problem is that since this is an attic, I think the rods will end up just going up to the top of the attic and not back to the access panel.
In one of his videos he shows the rods having a magnetic attachment and him attracting a ball chain. Another thought is to come with the rods through the access panel and towards the bay window but I'm not sure how I would get the ball chain up through the hole above the bay window to the attic.

Any ideas? The attic is one of those that you really can't walk on...

Thanks.

Mods: Please add this to my other thread(wiring existing house). I didn't mean to create a new topic.

 

[sic0048]

Can you access the attic near the wall with the access panel? In other words, is there just that space of about 18' that you cannot cross over? If so, you could probably use a push rod with a wire chain taped to it. Push it up into the attic with the chain running down the rod and out by the window. Then from the attic you can use another set of push rods with a hook on it to "catch" the wire chain. Slowly pull the wire chain towards you and the access panel. The wire chain needs to be at least twice as long as the distance you are going, because you'll be pulling the middle of the chain with one end taped to the first push rod and the other end hanging down be the window (which is slowly being pulled into the attic).

If you cannot get any attic access, then it will be pretty hard to do what you want. You are right that the push rods are not going to easily bend themselves towards the access panel wall. They bend, but in large arcs. They don't want to make tight bends at all.

 

[lip]

Can you access the attic near the wall with the access panel? In other words, is there just that space of about 18' that you cannot cross over? If so, you could probably use a push rod with a wire chain taped to it. Push it up into the attic with the chain running down the rod and out by the window. Then from the attic you can use another set of push rods with a hook on it to "catch" the wire chain. Slowly pull the wire chain towards you and the access panel. The wire chain needs to be at least twice as long as the distance you are going, because you'll be pulling the middle of the chain with one end taped to the first push rod and the other end hanging down be the window (which is slowly being pulled into the attic).

If you cannot get any attic access, then it will be pretty hard to do what you want. You are right that the push rods are not going to easily bend themselves towards the access panel wall. They bend, but in large arcs. They don't want to make tight bends at all.

Thanks for the reply.
What is the wire chain you are thinking of...something like this? http://www.allproducts.com/metal/dotto/01-...ack_chain-l.jpg

It's a good idea...I would just tape/tie the electrical cable to the end of the chain I guess.

The alternative is that I try and venture across the ceiling joists but one wrong step/fall and I'm going to really piss the wife off!!!!

LIP

 

[Sandpiper]

Here is how I would do it based on the info given. (I do this professionally).

First, as installers, we must walk on the trusses. You are correct in being cautious. Not only is it dangerous, a lot of damage can be created with any false step. But we do it all the time. Just be careful about pushing the insulation away to create footstep holes and always hold onto something.

Now for the actual wire fishing.....Strip the wire, leaving only one conductor about 2 inches long. Thread this conductor through the hole in a glass rod and fold the conductor over. Just fold it along the rod and nothing more. Push the rod with the wire up window hole until you hit the roof. Now, hold the wire in place and gently pull the rod back down about an inch or so. Dont allow the wire to move. This will create a loop in the wire in the attic. Now use something to hold the rod and wire in this position while you go to the attic.

In the attic, maneuver to get into position so you can reach the wire with some type of grabber. The Labor Saving Devices "Grabbit" pole is what I use. Use the hook on the grabber to catch the wire in the loop you created and then pull it to you.

 

[pipeman]

I've used small rare earth magnet with a hole in it tied to a pull string.
Push that up with a non magnetic end pushrod, then use a pushrod with a steel tip from the attic.
If you get within an inch or so, the magnet will jump to the tip.
The string, then wire method worked better for me than just starting off with wire.

 

[sic0048]

Thanks for the reply.
What is the wire chain you are thinking of...something like this? http://www.allproducts.com/metal/dotto/01-...ack_chain-l.jpg

It's a good idea...I would just tape/tie the electrical cable to the end of the chain I guess.

The alternative is that I try and venture across the ceiling joists but one wrong step/fall and I'm going to really piss the wife off!!!!

LIP

No - I really used the wrong term. I should have said "ball chain" - the chain like you find for fan and lamp pulls or dog tags. The stuff is great because it is flexable, yet has enough weight to it that it will fall down a hole. You can shake it and it will find it's way down a hole very well. Once the chain is pulled through, then tie stronger rope/twine to it and pull through, then tie the wire to the stronger rope. Generally speaker the wire chain itself isn't strong enough to use to pull the wire through, it will break off in the middle usually. But I use it all the time for both HV and LV wire pulling.

It is the chain in the bottom half of this picture.

That being said, it will be much easier to walk on the joists. just be carefull and make sure of every footing before you put weight on it. Most people step through the ceiling when they are being too fast/carefree and not carefully placing their footsteps.

 

[dfeller]

I saw a new fish system on CE news - HUGE magnet that pulls a steel slug down walls or across ceilings. Unfortunately I can't seem to find the link again - seems like it would be perfect for this. Anyone else see the ad?

David

 

[WayneW]

I saw a new fish system on CE news - HUGE magnet that pulls a steel slug down walls or across ceilings. Unfortunately I can't seem to find the link again - seems like it would be perfect for this. Anyone else see the ad?

http://www.lsdinc.com/content/product_details/114
http://www.magnepull.com/
http://www.fiberfish.com/Wire_Python.htm

 

[lip]

Thanks again for all the responses. I'm probably over-thinking this but the wife is going to kill me if I end up with a lot of mistakes(ie. holes!).

Sandpiper: I'm not 100% clear on what you are saying...are you saying to put one conductor through the hole of the fiber rod and bend it over and then push the rod and the wire together (beside each other) up through the hole? I'm curious how I can pull it back down without pulling the cable down?
Just for info, have you ever walked though a ceiling? If so, what did you do(pay the customer to fix it or fix it yourself?).

I wish I would have thought about installing this before I finished most of my basement! I still have the garage to go through and part of the basement.

Do you guys recommend me picking up the lsdi kits and if so which one? I was thinking of just picking up some fiberglass rods that are much cheaper.

Thanks again.
LIP

 

[Monk]

Thanks again for all the responses. I'm probably over-thinking this but the wife is going to kill me if I end up with a lot of mistakes(ie. holes!).

Sandpiper: I'm not 100% clear on what you are saying...are you saying to put one conductor through the hole of the fiber rod and bend it over and then push the rod and the wire together (beside each other) up through the hole? I'm curious how I can pull it back down without pulling the cable down?
Just for info, have you ever walked though a ceiling? If so, what did you do(pay the customer to fix it or fix it yourself?).

I wish I would have thought about installing this before I finished most of my basement! I still have the garage to go through and part of the basement.

Do you guys recommend me picking up the lsdi kits and if so which one? I was thinking of just picking up some fiberglass rods that are much cheaper.

Thanks again.
LIP

Lip,
Have you considered using wireless switches for this particular location? Some areas are simply too difficult to wire - even for experienced persons. If you have never walked through your own attic, perhaps you should "ease into" the wire pulling aspect by using wireless switches with the really difficult locations.
HTH
Monk

 

[lip]

There are some places I will use wireless as I would otherwise have to drill from left to right through a bunch of 2x4's that are behind a finished wall which makes little sense...
This location I don't think will be that difficult actually but since I've never done it before I want to make sure there is not an easier way than the way I had planned(already getting great ideas!).

I just need some advice now on which "kits" if any of the fibreglass rods and pulling systems I should buy or just go with the cheapest solution with some homemade parts...

Thanks again everyone as always.
LIP

 

[Sandpiper]

Sandpiper: I'm not 100% clear on what you are saying...are you saying to put one conductor through the hole of the fiber rod and bend it over and then push the rod and the wire together (beside each other) up through the hole? I'm curious how I can pull it back down without pulling the cable down?
Just for info, have you ever walked though a ceiling? If so, what did you do(pay the customer to fix it or fix it yourself?).

Correct. Push the wire and rod together up the hole side by side. The hole needs to be 3/8". Create a loop in the wire to make it easy to grab with a hook. The loop is created by holding the wire in place while pulling the rod back down a little. After you grab the wire in the attic, simply pull the rod back down. There is room in the 3/8" hole for the wire and rod to slide past each other.

No, I have not punched through a ceiling, but I did come close a few times by slipping awkwardly. I have heard stories from those who have. I have heard a lot of other stories such a drilling through the roof, drilling into plumbing, drilling into electrical....cat and rat stories.......and many others.

 

[Neurorad]

Kit? I don't know what's in each one, but it WILL be more than you need. There isn't any magic bullet. Read as much as you can.

I warned you, in the other thread, not to spend more than you need, going to that LSDI site.

The Magnepull is for pros, who will use it more than a few times. Might help, but not worth it.

Most attics don't have floors, be careful.

Drill down, from the attic, when you can - easier to drill down through the top plate of the wall, than up through it.

I can't picture where this access panel is located, in relation to the window.

Sometimes, it's easier to repair some drywall than break important stuff. I found a great drywall and paint guy, who's really cheap.

 

[lip]

Thanks again for all your help...I will report back once I've done this window(might be bit).
Great forum with great people!
LIP