Z-wave just keeps getting better...
- Thread starter Rupp
- Start date
ChrisWalker
Active Member
Just to clarify, Z-Wave has always been "2-way." Every command is by default acknowledged.cactsbob said:
That said, it's up to the device manufacturers whether or not to implement "instant/live status"--but the PC controller side doesn't need to change because it's already part of the protocol.
Chris
What I'm asking is are the legacy z-wave controllers that interface with Homeseer two-way? In other words as you said it is up to the manufacturers to implement the function in their products. Since, Homeseer put two-way functionality in their software does that mean that the old ACT interfaces that they sold & are selling now 2-way?ChrisWalker said:
If the old interfaces aren't setting in a listen mode how is Homeseer aware of changes in a switch without polling?
two way confusion resolution:
As Chris stated, Z-Wave has alway's been two way technology. With this he means that when the usb/serial controller send's a command it looks for an acknowledgment that the certain device actually recieved the command. This is how the devices have always been two-way.
With the new two way communication (just kidding - trying to confuse you) it is two way at the switch. This mean's that the switch does not need to be polled like the previous version's were. When you change the switch on at the wallplate, the switch sends to the master controller (in my case homeseer) that the switch has changed to ON. Previously homeseer would poll the switch every 300 seconds (or user defined) to see if the device had changed it's state. Now the switch automatically sends the information to homeseer when it happens (immediately).
The best part of this is:
1. You can program events around light switch changes.
2. You can eliminate the CPU intensive polling.
3. Homeseer knows exactly the state of a switch. This helps with programming events based on light conditions i.e. if switch on then do this..... - this limits the potential problems that could occur from such a statement)
The bad news:
I think homeseer is misleading us on the two way implementation. Again, as Chris stated all zwave devices are two way. The ACT ones are in fact two way but they do not transmit local status changes. The newer Leviton, Cooper, and Intermatic switches all transmit local status changes. I could be wrong about the ACT devices, but I looked at their website (ACT HOMEPRO) and it does not mention anything about local state updates - a feature that surely would be mentioned.
As Chris stated, Z-Wave has alway's been two way technology. With this he means that when the usb/serial controller send's a command it looks for an acknowledgment that the certain device actually recieved the command. This is how the devices have always been two-way.
With the new two way communication (just kidding - trying to confuse you) it is two way at the switch. This mean's that the switch does not need to be polled like the previous version's were. When you change the switch on at the wallplate, the switch sends to the master controller (in my case homeseer) that the switch has changed to ON. Previously homeseer would poll the switch every 300 seconds (or user defined) to see if the device had changed it's state. Now the switch automatically sends the information to homeseer when it happens (immediately).
The best part of this is:
1. You can program events around light switch changes.
2. You can eliminate the CPU intensive polling.
3. Homeseer knows exactly the state of a switch. This helps with programming events based on light conditions i.e. if switch on then do this..... - this limits the potential problems that could occur from such a statement)
The bad news:
I think homeseer is misleading us on the two way implementation. Again, as Chris stated all zwave devices are two way. The ACT ones are in fact two way but they do not transmit local status changes. The newer Leviton, Cooper, and Intermatic switches all transmit local status changes. I could be wrong about the ACT devices, but I looked at their website (ACT HOMEPRO) and it does not mention anything about local state updates - a feature that surely would be mentioned.
Rupp
Senior Member
rocco
Active Member
Intermatic has two different ZWave product lines: "HomeSettings ZWave" and "HomeSettings Pro".
The HomeSettings ZWave product line is comparable to the older ACT, and is similarly priced. Neither the older ACT or the current HomeSettings ZWave lines had "Live Status".
The HomeSettings Pro line supports "Live Status", like the newer ACT switches, but are more expensive. I believe they are not yet available.
The HomeSettings ZWave product line is comparable to the older ACT, and is similarly priced. Neither the older ACT or the current HomeSettings ZWave lines had "Live Status".
The HomeSettings Pro line supports "Live Status", like the newer ACT switches, but are more expensive. I believe they are not yet available.
ChrisWalker
Active Member
Just FYI, the Intermatic "HomeSettings Pro" line was renamed "InTouch" a few months ago. I don't know if this was widely noticed, but I imagine that it helps differentiate the featureset of the two lines...rocco said:
Chris
AutomatedOutlet
Senior Member
Rupp,
Please don't misled people into thinking that the ZDW120 is a 2-way status switch - it is not.
Please don't misled people into thinking that the ZDW120 is a 2-way status switch - it is not.
Rupp
Senior Member
Martin,
I'm not sure what the definitive definition is for 2way status switch is or even where it is described but what I know is: if I hit the top of the switch HomeSeer knows instantly that the device was turned on. I'm sure there are definitions for this some where but it's all semantics. If it quacks like a duck and looks like a duck it must be a duck.
I'm not sure what the definitive definition is for 2way status switch is or even where it is described but what I know is: if I hit the top of the switch HomeSeer knows instantly that the device was turned on. I'm sure there are definitions for this some where but it's all semantics. If it quacks like a duck and looks like a duck it must be a duck.
ChrisWalker
Active Member
We received one of each of these switches today. It appears that neither of them support "instant status reports" via Z-Wave spec.
"[instant] status report" as built into the Z-Wave protocol means:
1. I turn on a switch locally, and it sends out a status report to other interested devices indicating that it just turned on. This is like a light bulb saying "I just turned on!"
2. I turn on a switch via a remote, and it sends out a status report to other interested devices (sans maybe the one that told it turn on) indicating that it just turned on. It can say "I just turned on!" exactly the same way.
What the ACT switches are doing is:
1. If I turn on the switch locally, it tells anyone in group 1 to turn on as well. "Turn on!"
2. If I turn on the switch via a remote, it tells anyone in group 4 to turn on as well. "Turn on!"
If any software out there is interpreting the message "turn on!" as "hey, buddy, secretly I mean that someone just turned me on", then I guess they could call it "instant status." But at that point, either the software or (more likely) the user of the software is potentially violating patent(s). [Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer, and that's not a legal opinion.]
According to clarification that I have received from Zensys, all computer software applications must ignore these messages. Interpreting them as "instant status reports" would be a creative thing to do, but it would not follow spec and the software could not be certified as Z-Wave compliant.
Chris
"[instant] status report" as built into the Z-Wave protocol means:
1. I turn on a switch locally, and it sends out a status report to other interested devices indicating that it just turned on. This is like a light bulb saying "I just turned on!"
2. I turn on a switch via a remote, and it sends out a status report to other interested devices (sans maybe the one that told it turn on) indicating that it just turned on. It can say "I just turned on!" exactly the same way.
What the ACT switches are doing is:
1. If I turn on the switch locally, it tells anyone in group 1 to turn on as well. "Turn on!"
2. If I turn on the switch via a remote, it tells anyone in group 4 to turn on as well. "Turn on!"
If any software out there is interpreting the message "turn on!" as "hey, buddy, secretly I mean that someone just turned me on", then I guess they could call it "instant status." But at that point, either the software or (more likely) the user of the software is potentially violating patent(s). [Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer, and that's not a legal opinion.]
According to clarification that I have received from Zensys, all computer software applications must ignore these messages. Interpreting them as "instant status reports" would be a creative thing to do, but it would not follow spec and the software could not be certified as Z-Wave compliant.
Chris
ChrisWalker
Active Member
Rupp:
In this case, it's a duck which belongs to a secret club.
So secret in fact that the manual that comes with the ACT switches don't say that the switches support "instant status."
On a serious note, it appears that the major difference between v1.0 of these switches and the new v1.1 switches is that Group 4 now sends out its "turn on!" messages via repeaters, where before it did not.
Also, to clarify, it appears that ACT is making some pretty full-featured switches these days. I have not seen them advertising them as "instant status" switches, however. It appears that that may be an innocent misinterpretation.
Chris
In this case, it's a duck which belongs to a secret club.
So secret in fact that the manual that comes with the ACT switches don't say that the switches support "instant status."On a serious note, it appears that the major difference between v1.0 of these switches and the new v1.1 switches is that Group 4 now sends out its "turn on!" messages via repeaters, where before it did not.
Also, to clarify, it appears that ACT is making some pretty full-featured switches these days. I have not seen them advertising them as "instant status" switches, however. It appears that that may be an innocent misinterpretation.
Chris
