Zwave compatibility

[webmtn]

I'm hoping to get a little help from you Zwave experts on this forum. We're UPB guys, but we've been playing with other technologies with our new RUC-01 controller, as we're providing the ability to convert one protocol to another. I'm having an issue with Zwave that is very perplexing. In order to be able to send and receive Zwave, we need a Zwave serial interface unit. We're using the Leviton RZCOP unit. In our initial testing, which included all Leviton equipment, including the Leviton handheld controller, we were able to setup a Zwave network, control all of the devices, and capture commands. We were using the Leviton RZCPG RF Handheld Remote Controller as the primary controller and used it to associate and control devices. As I said, everything worked well. However, I then decided to expand my test network and purchased some HomeManageable plug in modules, a Wayne Dalton dimmer, and a GE 45601 RF handheld remote controller. Using the GE handheld controller, I was able to create a network with the HomeManageable and Wayne Dalton dimmer, but I was never able to associate the RZCOP serial interface unit. I found another post in this forum where a couple of folks were having a similar issue. One of these folks was able to get it to work, but I tried following his instructions and it never did work for me.

Similarly, I tried to add the HomeManageable plugins and the Wayne Dalton dimmer to the existing network of Leviton devices, but I was never able to add them using the RZCPG. Now, I will admit we've had this RZCPG for a couple of years, so it's older firmware. However, the RZCOP is brand new, along with all of the other non-Leviton devices.

The documentation for the units tells you to read the documentation for other units to determine how to add them to a network and I read the instructions multiple times and tried to follow them. However, some of the documentation is a little skimpy, so I'm wondering if I'm missing some key piece of information.

So, am I just missing something, being a newbie to Zwave, and these units should be able to play nice together, or is there an issue with compatibility between Leviton and non-Leviton Zwave devices? If so, can someone recommend another Zwave serial interface device?

Thanks.

 

[ddennerline]

The RZCOP is an older Z-Wave serial controller that is no longer manufactured. The Leviton replacement is VRC0P. I only have Leviton devices in my network, so I cannot speak to Z-Wave compatibility. I did attempt to include a 2-Gig Z-Wave Thermostat, but I could not get either Leviton RF Runtime Toolkit or ControlThink to include device.

There are numerous posts on both CocoonTech and ControlThink about problems related to using non-Leviton Z-wave devices in a majority constructed Leviton network. From several previous posts, Leviton Z-Wave doesn’t play nice with other controller because the association command class (two way status) requires a special patent license. Majority of manufactures do not implement this feature. To get a heterogonous Z-Wave network working requires a primary/master controller that is built from the ground up to deal with all the subtle manufacturer differences.

To get cross manufacturer Z-Wave network working appropriately, you would have to license the Z-Wave toolkit, build a super controller, and construct a test network. As first step, you may want to update RFCPG firmware and purchase a VRC0P as a starting point. Supposedly, there a replacement VRC0P being released sometime this year.

 

[xlurkr]

I'm one of the two guys who has gotten the GE remote / RZC0P combo to work. What happens when you follow my instructions? Make sure you reset everything first. Since a device can only be enrolled in one network at a time, you had to do a reset on the RZC0P after it had been enrolled in the RZCPG's network. If you didn't, that's why it didn't work.

You can talk to the RZC0P through hyperterminal, or even better LumenLink, to see what devices it is aware of.

-Tom

 

[electron]

I really would focus on adding Z-Wave support using the new VRC0P (just released).

 

[webmtn]

Thanks so much for the replies. So, my first thought was to go get a VRCOP unit. I checked Smarthome, Home Controls, and Automated Outlet. None of them seemed to carry the product. I found one site that appeared to have one but they were quite expensive. So, I contacted the folks at Automated Oulet using their online chat - they were extremely helpful and here's the information they shared with me:

AO: Here's the information I have...Leviton originally put out the RZC0P, then when the Vizia RF+ came out, they changed it to the VRC0P. They have recently discontinued the VRC0P and went back to the RZC0P...why, we're not sure, but were told the functionality was the same. However, when we order the VRC0P, we get the RZC0P. We did have some previously, but I just checked and we only have RZC0P's on the shelf.

So, it appears that Leviton has discontinued the VRCOP and gone back to the RZCOP unit. However, Dennerline is suggesting a new VRCOP might be coming out later this year - I'll keep my eyes and ears open for that. Also, Dennerline is also saying that there are certainly other folks having issues with Leviton and non-Leviton devices, so I can keeping looking for information.

Xlurkr - I did try doing a reset of the RZCOP unit and thought I did it correctly, but I'll try it again. I appreciate the suggestion. I also appreciate your reference to Lumenlink - I'll take a look at it.

Plus, another participant of these forums has volunteered to get on the phone with me and walk me through it, so we'll try to do this next week. Thanks to everyone for the information - more details later................

 

[electron]

Ok, AO is misinformed or confused. Leviton JUST released a new version of the VRC0P, which supports newer Z-Wave features such as beaming (required for door locks, etc), while the new unit is also upgradeable. 2 CTVA vendors carry the new version, others are still catching up I guess:

http://www.asihome.com/ASIshop/product_info.php?products_id=3437
http://www.smarthome-products.com/p-802-vizia-rf-vrc0p-1lw-plug-in-serial-interface-module-rs232-ascii-interface.aspx

 

[webmtn]

Thanks so much for the information. I'll go get one of these and try my setup again.

 

[Odeen]

Thanks so much for the information. I'll go get one of these and try my setup again.

FWIW, RZC0P1 and VRC0P are the same thing except for the label.

The GE/Jasco remote makes for a lousy primary controller because it was designed with GE equipment in mind only (i.e. dimmers and switches). It's artificially limited to just one thermostat, and its behavior i you try to add another thermostat is.. undefined, according to GE's own tech support.

Since the RZC0P is neither a dimmer, a switch, or a thermostat, the GE remote is not designed to add it. That said, I was able to initiate the procedure of a light addition, added the RZC0P that way, and then sent network information to it as a secondary controller. Not pretty, but it worked.

 

[intozwave]

FWIW, RZC0P1 and VRC0P are the same thing except for the label.

Since the RZC0P is neither a dimmer, a switch, or a thermostat, the GE remote is not designed to add it. That said, I was able to initiate the procedure of a light addition, added the RZC0P that way, and then sent network information to it as a secondary controller. Not pretty, but it worked.

The RZC0P-1LW and the VRC0P-1LW are not the same the new VRC0P-1LW has a field upgradeable firmware as the RZC0P does not. The new VRC0P-1LW supports "Beaming" and Z-Wave Secure Lock classes the RZC0P-1LW does not. The RZ0P-1LW and the VRC0P-1LW are both secondary Z-Wave controllers. If one wants to work with the "Beaming" and Z-Wave Secure Lock classes you the need a primary controller that also handles these - currently the GE/Jasco Handhelds do notbut the were demoing a Handheld controller that worked Locks at CES B)

 

[xlurkr]

Odeen is right. The two keys for getting this to work are 1) add the Leviton controller as a light and 2) ignore the remote when it says it failed to do so.

I think he's also right about the two older Leviton controllers being identical. They sure behave exactly the same.

-Tom

 

[webmtn]

Ok, thanks to InToZ-wave, I now have a RZCOP to play with. And, I've made some progress. Using the procedure from Xlurkr, I've got the VRCOP mostly working. I can send commands from my controller through the VRCOP and control the Homemanageable plugins and the Wayne Dalton dimmer. However, I'm not receiving all the commands on the Zwave network. On the GE 45601, I have button 1 programmed when in Lights mode to control one of the Homemanageable plugin modules. Button 2 controls the other plugin, and button 3 controls the dimmer. When I press any of those buttons, the appropriate device turns on, but the VRCOP is not showing that it received anything - doesn't send anything to my controller. (I have a serial port monitor connected between the VRCOP and my controller.) However, if I press the ALL button on the 45601, then click any of the numbered buttons, all devices respond properly and the VRCOP sends serial commands to the controller.

I tried transferring to the secondary controller using the ALL option and the NETWORK ONLY option and it makes no difference.

By the way, I think I know the problem I was having with Xlurkr's procedure earlier. I was hitting the button on the remote and it was either sending or waiting while I pressed the button on the VRCOP to get it into the include mode. However, what I did now was first get the VRCOP flashing amber, then hit the button on the 45601 to perform the action. This allowed me to get this far. I'm betting this was the problem with the older serial interface unit - the RZCOP - I needed to get it into the include mode before telling the primary controller to include it. It looks like it is fairly particular about the order.

I'm suspicious that the VRCOP is still not included correctly in the network. Does anyone have any insight for me on why I'm not receiving the individual button commands, but I am receiving the ALL commands?