Best cellular backup for Elk with primary communication through ethernet

[pgershon]

I am replacing my current panel with an Elk M1.  Looking to connect with alarmrelay through the internet primarily with an ELK-M1XEP.  I do have concern that the internet into my house is rather obvious (as was the old telco phone line) and easy to disconnect so I would like cellular backup.  Been reading posts all morning and see the Uplink 4500EZ and the Telular TG-1express as primary options (or the TG-4).
 
Not sure which is better option, both in terms of easy of installation, cost, and reliability.  I think there is a reasonable chance I will want the cellular in a different room than the panel (with cat 5 of similar connection).  The Uplink requires other equipment, including power and battery for the unit and, I believe, the ELK M1-XSP.  Not cheap.  Can the TG-1 suit my purposes and require less addition equipment to connect.
 
Basic configuration on ELK is expected to be:
 
ELK-M1GSYS4
ELK-M1XEP
ELK-M1XRFEG
 
My sensors are existing GE sensors from my old 1996 Caretaker Plus system.  I have checked model numbers and they should work with the ELK (at least most of them, the ones I looked at).
 
Any advice most appreciated.  Sorry if I may have posted segments of this on other threads, but this is best way to get thoughts together.

 

[apostolakisl]

I use hai c3.  It allows for a regular "dialup" service to whatever monitoring co you want.  You get an annual $100 prepaid sim card from ATT which covers the cellular and then pay the normal monitoring charge.  Unlike the uplnk style units, your cellular service is not linked to your monitoring.  A potential downside is that there is no "hearbeat" with this unit so if all of the cell towers in your area went down, you would not get a warning.  Elk does monitor the unit for dial tone continuously so if the unit itself went down, you would get a trouble condition.  Also you would get a trouble condition if there were a failed test call.  I have a test call go out every night for my system as its "heartbeat".
 
It is incredibly simple to setup.  Just plug it in to the power (you can use a UPS if you like, it does have a built-in backup battery, it uses 12vdc via a wall wart or you can wire it in to the same 12v supply as your Elk uses if you have enough amps), pop in the sim card, plug in the high gain antenna, and plug in the phone jack to the Elk.  You can leave the Elk settings exactly as is if you already have a dial up CS account.

 

[pgershon]

Thanks Lou.  So if I used the ethernet monitoring for primary with alarm relay, they could use dial up as secondary (the fact that it was coming in cellular would be irrelevant to alarm relay.
 
Does the unit need to be in the same room of can the Hai c3 be one flight upstairs (out of basement in cell range)?

 

[apostolakisl]

Thanks Lou.  So if I used the ethernet monitoring for primary with alarm relay, they could use dial up as secondary (the fact that it was coming in cellular would be irrelevant to alarm relay.
 
Does the unit need to be in the same room of can the Hai c3 be one flight upstairs (out of basement in cell range)?

 
Correct, the fact that it is cellular is not even known by Alarm Relay.  I use Alarm Relay with mine as the one and only communication.  It has never failed me in several years of use.
 
As far as distance, the only wire connecting it to the alarm panel is the phone line.  So you can run that quite some distance.
 
You could also run the antenna wire upstairs and keep the c3 unit next to the panel.  The antenna appears to use a coaxial connection.
 
Although, I wouldn't be surprised if your comm in the basement is fine.  This is a high power antenna, so it does a lot better than a hand held phone.

 

[drvnbysound]

Has anyone ever looked into using a cellular providers modem as a backup solution?
 
This solution just occured to me... but I know a guy who has a Verizon 4G LTE router for his home; rural area where Satellite ISP was his only other alternative. Technically this would still be classified as Ethernet monitoring as far as Alarm Relay or other CS, but the service is provided over cellular network (harder to cut the cable).
 
I have no idea if this link will work, but if you haven't seen one of these this is what I'm talking about:
http://www.verizonwireless.com/b2c/store/controller?item=phoneFirst&action=viewPhoneDetail&selectedPhoneId=6411

 

[pgershon]

Do you know if I could set my system up so the Verizon 4G router kicked in (automatically) if and only if my FIOS went down?

 

[apostolakisl]

Do you know if I could set my system up so the Verizon 4G router kicked in (automatically) if and only if my FIOS went down?

 
I would expect that this would be something a fancy router would do for you.  Probably cost a lot more than the other options.

 

[drvnbysound]

I think the cost would very much be dependent on a number of variables. For example, Verizon is my cell provider so adding another VZ device to my existing contract would be cheaper. I'd gladly pay more upfront for a router that could handle the connectivity than a lifetime reoccuring cost for GSM service. Yes, I know there are some who go with pre-paid options; but personally, I don't want to have to check on that every X days to see how many minutes I have left. So for me, the C3 would be more costly.
 
Additionally, AT&T/T-Mobile (GSM) both have terrible coverage where I'm located, so there is NO way that I would trust it as a backup source for my alarm system.

 

[pgershon]

I just looked up what this would cost.  I found a $95 router that would provide LTE backup (DrayTek Vigor Fly 210) but then I realized Verizon becomes the problem.  The LTE service is $20 month, not $10 month as I expected - seems they charge more for modems than iPads or iPhones.  That kills it, as this is only for alarm backup.

 

[drvnbysound]

I just looked up what this would cost.  I found a $95 router that would provide LTE backup (DrayTek Vigor Fly 210) but then I realized Verizon becomes the problem.  The LTE service is $20 month, not $10 month as I expected - seems they charge more for modems than iPads or iPhones.  That kills it, as this is only for alarm backup.

 
That's precisely what I was speaking of above. That $20/mo would be cheaper for me than a new contract for the single device on a GSM network.

 

[pgershon]

That's precisely what I was speaking of above. That $20/mo would be cheaper for me than a new contract for the single device on a GSM network.

But more than the $12/month alarm relay would charge if I went with an Uplink 4500EZ or a TG1/TG4

 

[drvnbysound]

But more than the $12/month alarm relay would charge if I went with an Uplink 4500EZ or a TG1/TG4

Is that $12/mo for monitoring only, or does that include the GSM service as well?
 
For me, it really doesn't matter since the GSM network here is terrible. I wouldn't feel comfortable relying on it as a backup solution.

 

[apostolakisl]

The coverage you get driving around with a phone in hand is not the same thing you get with a C3.  The C3 has a high watt high gain antenna.  I obviously can't say that at your home you will get coverage at all since you could live in the middle of nowhere.  But I would be willing to bet that if you live in a regular neighborhood like area at all you will get full strength.
 
Initially, I had ATT cell phone service on my iphone and didn't do the prepaid but rather paid $10/mo to have the C3 added to my regular plan.  It shared minutes.  I then used the c3 to run my house phones as well as the alarm.  So I made quite a lot of calls.  My iphone had mediocre reception at my house, but using my home phone running through the c3 gave me perfect call quality and never a drop.  Aside from the cellular delay, you couldn't tell it wasn't a land line.
 
$100/year is what it costs for the prepaid coverage.  That gives you 1000 minutes that don't expire for 12 months.  Of which you might at most use half.  That is only if you run daily checks and have an alarm every other day.
 
I run daily checks on mine and have a handful of events like false alarms and a recent "battery test fail" that went to CS.  So I have more than 600 minutes left over at the end of the year.  You don't need to check minutes, you are never going to run out.  The c3 cellular service is not my backup, it is my only service.  I have had one hiccup in 3 years, that was when my credit card changed and the auto bill didn't go through.  So I woke up the morning after that and the alarm had a trouble code "failed comm" which of course I fixed by simply correcting the CC number.  So I guess I was unmonitored for about 7 hours.

 

[drvnbysound]

I certainly understand what you are saying about the C3 having a different antenna (and probably more power) than a cell phone. However, while I do live in a residential area it is fairly far from the "city"... it's somewhere between what I would call suburbs and a more rural area. That said, when I have friends over with AT&T service and it's not that they have low signal... they don't have any at all.
 
The friend of mine that went with the Verizon 4G modem lives much further away and definitely in a rural area. He actually had AT&T cell service for about 2 years and found that he received about 10% of calls at his house, which is why he switched to VZW :unsure:

 

[apostolakisl]

If you get reception at all with a handheld phone, you will very likely get full or near full strength on the c3, especially with an elevated antenna position.  I think you will find the same thing with other devices like the uplink models.  It really is a different animal.  Certainly it would be nice if you could test it out before committing to buy.  But I don't know where you could borrow one from.
 
Just a little piece of trivia, the old circa 1985's phones, the ones with a shoulder bag, people actually hunt these down because you can use them to get reception in the middle of nowhere since they also have high gain antennas.  Of course they are analog so this trick is just about run its course.