Special Brultech ECM-1220.H offer to cocoontech members.

[123]

...If the Elk can handle various input monitoring ... I would think it could handle interval data aquisition from a data recorder...

I believe you can get the M1 to read the incoming data. However, what happens next? It can maintain a running total but can't keep a log. Wouldn't an HA app be better suited to process, and display, the data?

 

[jharrell]

The value would be to alleviate another external peripheral from my HA PC. What would be alot of data?

If the Elk can handle various input monitoring such as zones, thermostats, multiple keypads, temperature sensors, process instantaneous rules, and my Homeseer application continuously communicating using UJ's plug-in, I would think it could handle interval data aquisition from a data recorder.

Is the concept completely out of the question?

I wouldn't say it was out of the question, it really wouldn't be that difficult to simply wire the proper sized current transformer to a zone and the zone reading would give you a number that could be translated into the power. But the Elk only has 8bit res for an analog reading correct? This would be a pretty low res reading and it would be without a voltage reading to get better accuracy as well. Plus where would you store historical data in the Elk?

I could imagine ELk could make a special interface board to do this correctly and update their firmware to support this added complexity. I think in many ways this makes sense as an automation system could do various things based on house power consumption, and you can see some of this occuring with thermostats and "smart meters".

Honestly I would prefer a system like Elk or HAI(which I have) to make all zones basically a 16bit analog I/O that of course can simply be used for security sensors, but if we choose, we could use the zones like any analog I/O board, and write more complex programs that could record values and do simple mathematical calculations on them. This would allow to implement a power monitor or a host of other data aquisition possibilties.

I think this is probably going to stay in the realm of PC based automation for some time with products like this one. I have even thought about just buying a 8 or 16 port analog I/O board, maybe even an ethernet based one to do this task and any others (Like say the garage door position using pots) along with software running on my server. I have even entertained simply dedicating an ethernet based ocilliscope(http://www.bitscope.com) that is permanently connected to the power line for voltage and noise analysis!

 

[will40]

...If the Elk can handle various input monitoring ... I would think it could handle interval data aquisition from a data recorder...

I believe you can get the M1 to read the incoming data. However, what happens next? It can maintain a running total but can't keep a log. Wouldn't an HA app be better suited to process, and display, the data?

I agree. Then ethernet to HA app would be the way to go for me if that is in the future of this device.

Thanks

 

[IVB]

So have we scared the BTechRep away, or is he just really busy?

 

[Btech]

I was lurking in the other thread, I thought there was going to be a network expansion thingey coming out for this?

I agree, that would be a needed upgrade for me.

We should have an interim solution shortly in the form of an external rs232 to ethernet

module for access to the ECM-1220.H via a LAN.

 

[Btech]

So is there an free SDK for those of us that would want to use a more main stream software package such as HomeSeer for monitoring this hardware?

We make the protocol and packet information available to our customers. I believe we

also have some sample VB code which displays the unit data.

 

[Btech]

So is there an free SDK for those of us that would want to use a more main stream software package such as HomeSeer for monitoring this hardware?

There are protocol documents and some vb source code (not vb.net, old vb) that Paul sent me when I asked for them. They are not on the web site. I asked for them because I write my own software and I wanted to see how difficult the protocol was before I bought the unit. That's an important part of any product evaluation for me.

The protocol is pretty simple to use and it only took me a week or so to create a .net assembly to communicate with the unit, and a xAP assembly to broadcast the state. Since I don't have a unit yet these are totally untested, but the point is the protocol is pretty easy to use.

He mentioned another packet type (that would make 3) that has additional information for use with solar/wind systems, but that's not in the documentation currently. I look forward to this info being added. I'll probably buy a unit once I see the cocoontech special tomorrow.

I see some features that do not appear to be in the protocol that I would like, but I'll wait to get one and actually use the protocol before I start whining (errr... expressing interest in) these missing items.

Matt

Mat, We have some sample vb.net code which communicates with the ECM-1220 and displays

the variables. It uses our new packet format the new firmware for this is posted on our

site. It is not posted anywhere right now but if you email me I can send it to you.

The source for this code was taken from here and we made a few changes :

http://www.codeworks.it/net/VBNetRs232.htm (thanks to Corrado Cavalli's for the fine

vb.net serial communication demo)

OK Mat, what is missing that you would like to see? Power Factor? Apparent Power?

 

[Btech]

Are there any plans to offer a Z-Wave connection module rather than ZigBee? Many of us use a Z-Wave network in our home and do not have the means to run wires to our breaker panels.

We tried to contact the people from ZenSys (Z-wave people) about a year ago to discuss

the possibility of using the z-wave modules in our energy monitors. They would not respond to us. After several calls

and unanswered emails we decided to persue the zigbee technology. I am happy we have gone

the zigbee route because it works very well.

 

[Btech]

Rupp, you don't have to run wire for ZigBee either. ZigBee is actually a really good choice for this application.

I think his point was that he wants to install the device near his panel and use his existing Z-Wave network to communicate with it... rather than purchasing a ZigBee computer interface and all.

Brett

I'm not up to date with z-wave however, if they have a drop in module that will allow RS-232 communication to a computer (19,200 baud) then it may be do-able.

 

[Btech]

Paul, I've got a couple of questions about the CT's and I'm hoping you can help me.

First, as a bit of background, I have 200A electrical service to my house. As a test the other day I tried to turn on pretty much all of the electrical devices in my house - my two heat pumps, the electric water heater, the range and the drier and many of my lights and other appliances. Then I put a clamp on ammeter on each leg of my electric service and discovered that with pretty much everything on I was only drawing about 60A on each leg.

Now, it's my understanding that the 100A CT's have a bit better accuracy on the low end than the 200A CT's. Given that it's highly unlikely that I'll ever draw more than 100A - it was all I could do to draw 60A with everything on - would I be OK getting 100A CT's? Or do I need to get 200A CT's because I have 200A service? If I do get 100A CT's and I somehow manage to draw 110A or 150A at some point would that damage anything or would I just get bad readings during the periods of high current draw?

Also, are the solid core CT's any more accurate than the split core CT's or are they just a little cheaper because they're easier to make? I have a somewhat unique situation in that my main breaker is in a box on the outside of my house, which feeds a panel with the rest of my breakers inside the house. So it would be fairly easy (and safe) for me to shut off the power at the main breaker outside, then temporarily disconnect those feeds on the box inside (which would then have no power in it) to slip a solid core CT on. It's certainly worth a little extra trouble for me to do that if I might get slightly better readings, but if the difference really is only cost, then I may as well pay a few dollars more and have the ease of just clipping the split core CT's on.

Thanks much,
Brett

Brett,

It is not uncommon to have an over rated panel. This leaves the option for house

expansion, hot-tub, pool etc without having to upgrade the electrical service. You could in

theory use a SPLIT-100 current transformer however your limitation would lie with the

conductor diameter. Our SPLIT-100 CTs will accept a maximum diameter of 0.61" while our

SPLIT-200 CTs are good to 0.98" wire diameter. I think the SPLIT-100 will just make it

if your wiring is copper.... don't take my word on this, check first. The other

limitation would be the maximum continuous current the CTs can handle. If this is

exceeded for an extended period of time, the CT could get warm due to excessive current

in the CT winding and Core saturation. The ECM-1220's readings would also become

in-accurate, although it would not damage the unit.

I just checked the specs on our SPLIT-200s and it it very linear down to 1A which is

the lowest data point taken. I suspect that it still performs well below that. I know

that my panel at home rarely, if ever drops below one amp (roughly 120 watts).

I can find more if you wish.

Typically, solid core CTs are less expensive than split-core CTs for an equivalent

accuracy. There is little demand for solid core CTs for use with our ECM-1220, since it

is mostly installed in existing electrical systems and removing the line wires require

disconnecting incomming power to thread the wire through the center of the CT. Not

recommended!

Since the demand for solid core CTs is small, the lower quantities we would purchase would make the cost

comparative to that of the split-core CTs which we have manufactured in large quantities. We

therefore have opted to stay with split-core CTs only. We do stock some donut-type CTs

if you preferred.

(Remember.... this should only be done by a qualified person or electrician... )

 

[Btech]

The designation on my main cable says Kaiser Alminum 2/0 and the individusal conductors measure a full 3/4 inch in diameter... will the 200 Amp split core transformers fit these wires?

Our SPLIT-200 will accomodate a 0.98" dia conductor.

 

[Btech]

The ECM-1220 is a two channel unit which allows monitoring of two seperate loads if desired. We have a solution for connecting both phases
of a 120V/240V panel to a single channel if desired, leaving the other channel to monitor a secondary load. The TED is a single channel
unit.

OK ... I am feeling a little slow here.

I have a standard 110V 200A service, and also have two circuits with 30A electric heaters attached to them. I'd like to be able to monitor the whole house usage, and also monitor the two (240V) heater circuits separately. My understanding of this device is that I would be able to monitor the whole house and one of the other loads.

What is needed to monitor the second load -- a another pair of CTs? How much would they cost? Can the CT's be attached at the heater end of the circuit rather than the panel end (I have them going into a huge disconnect switch box which has way more room than my panel).

Is this product cUL/CSA rated for use in Canada?

Rob,

You could monitor the total panel on one channel and both heaters on the others. Since

the heaters have no neutral, the current on each leg is equal and you can use a single

CT, then do the same for the other heater. You would then have both heaters monitored

together on the second channel. There are a couple of things to be aware here. The CT

phasing must be correct or else the two CT signal will subtract. The phasing has to do

with which direction the arrow indicator on the CT is pointing . You will also need to

adjust the ECM-1220.h's CT setting by a factor of two to account for one CT only on a

240V load. We have documentation which explains this.

If you plan on doing this order the Y-kit (something like that) which is two CTs on a

single plug.

The entire circuit inside the ECM-1220 is galvanically isolated, meaning has no direct

connection to the panel wiring. This isolation is a function of using transformers for

isolation. The wall transformer is UL/CSA approved. The CTs have recently been tested

and approved for UL/c marking. We are in the process of persuing the required labeling

portion of UL/c listing. All three split core models we carry have passed the testing

phase.

 

[Btech]

BtechRep,

This looks like a very interesting product.

What about UL listing for use in the United States? It looks like the plug-in AC adapter is UL listed but I did not see anything mentioned about the rest of the system. I am especially concerned about the current transformers since they mount inside the electrical panel. I would like to know that this system is approved and legal for use in the United States before considering a purchase.

I also have a question about the current transformer's opening. I have a 200 amp service that is fed by 3/0 THW copper wire. Since the wire size is larger than some and the older THW insulation is thicker than the THHN used today, I was wondering if the current transformers you list in your package will have a large enough opening? If the opening is not large enough, do you have other options available and at what cost?

Thanks,
Brian

BDHall,

Any approval that we get is for UL/c for use in Canada and USA. Our wall transformers are approved and our CTs have just passed the required testing and we are waiting for the labelling approval phase to be completed.

Our SPLIT-200 will accomodate a 0.98" diameter wire.

If the certification mark would make you feel more at ease, you obtain CTs from http://magnelab.com/transformers.php

Any of their 333mV/FS CTs are compatible with the ECM-1220.H or may elect to wait until our labelled versions are ready

which is difficult to estimate.

 

[Btech]

So have we scared the BTechRep away, or is he just really busy?

IVB,

.... Just really busy! I wish I could spend more time on this site.

I really enjoys hearing the great ideas some people come up with. There are a lot of intelligent, innovative people here, the type that will not settle for yesterday's technology but thrive on taking technology to the next level.

 

[electron]

GREAT responses and information, thanks!