Automated locks

[BraveSirRobbin]

I look forward to the report.  I hope this doesn't mean once I am inside and within Bluetooth range of the door, anyone can 'tap' to open.

Hmmm, good point.  I know it uses the new low power Bluetooth interface.

 

[ControlMyPad]

By 'door sensor' do you mean a deadbolt throw/position indicator?  I don't think that is in their line.

By door sensor I meant a way for the lock to know and report if the door is closed.  I imagine something can be done between the strike plate and a sensor in the lock or bolt.  It wasn't apparent at first, but after living with these locks for years now it seems incomplete to just know if your door is unlock/locked and then having to work out something with either a separate Z-wave door sensor or alarm contact.  At the very least the auto-lock feature would be smart enough to only auto-lock if the door was closed, but ideally we would be able to monitor or use the sensor for automation purposes.

 

[IndyMike]

Followup question on the motorized Zwave deadbolts (Schlage/Kwikset) reporting status:  What do these locks report if they attempt to throw the deadbolt and encounter an interference?  Do they utilize a limit switch or other feedback to determine that the bolt made it to end of travel?  ...Or, do they assume that, since the motor was activated,  the deadbolt was successfully engaged?
 
Like Work2Play, I am using a number of the old Morning Industries deadbolts that cannot report status.  I use a proximity sensor in the door frame to determine when the deadbolt is thrown.  This works well, and I can determine that all (but one) of my entry doors and sliders are "locked" via the ELK/ISY.  Over the years, I have had to adjust the entry doors/strike plates a number of times to eliminate interference due to temperature changes/house settling.  It's a fact of life - things age and go out of alignment.  The door frame sensor/ELK/ISY has notified me when this occurs and I've been able to correct the situation.
 
My front entry door has sidelights - Very difficult to add the proximity sensor without some serious mill-work on the jamb.  The Zwave deadbolts would be an "elegant" solution if they can determine whether the deadbolt has been "thrown and engaged".

 

[IVB]

They are coming out with a new Bluetooth lock and all one needs to do is 'tap' it to open it if it's in range of their paired phone (IVB, you need this lock!).
 
A complete exclusive report with photos is forthcoming!

Once that's out & kinks addressed, i'm all over it. Hopefully. That's sounds perfect.

 

[drvnbysound]

Followup question on the motorized Zwave deadbolts (Schlage/Kwikset) reporting status:  What do these locks report if they attempt to throw the deadbolt and encounter an interference?  Do they utilize a limit switch or other feedback to determine that the bolt made it to end of travel?  ...Or, do they assume that, since the motor was activated,  the deadbolt was successfully engaged?
 
Like Work2Play, I am using a number of the old Morning Industries deadbolts that cannot report status.  I use a proximity sensor in the door frame to determine when the deadbolt is thrown.  This works well, and I can determine that all (but one) of my entry doors and sliders are "locked" via the ELK/ISY.  Over the years, I have had to adjust the entry doors/strike plates a number of times to eliminate interference due to temperature changes/house settling.  It's a fact of life - things age and go out of alignment.  The door frame sensor/ELK/ISY has notified me when this occurs and I've been able to correct the situation.
 
My front entry door has sidelights - Very difficult to add the proximity sensor without some serious mill-work on the jamb.  The Zwave deadbolts would be an "elegant" solution if they can determine whether the deadbolt has been "thrown and engaged".

I'm not sure about the Schlage, but the Kwikset will report if there was an issue with locked (e.g. door not fully closed, and deadbolt attempted to extend, but wasn't able to). There are ASCII strings that are in the Elk M1XSLZW manual for this... It would be easy to have an Elk do whatever you wanted once it received this message.

 

[George M]

I'm not sure about the Schlage, but the Kwikset will report if there was an issue with locked (e.g. door not fully closed, and deadbolt attempted to extend, but wasn't able to). There are ASCII strings that are in the Elk M1XSLZW manual for this... It would be easy to have an Elk do whatever you wanted once it received this message.

Same with the Schlage.

 

[drvnbysound]

Same with the Schlage.

Based on the nature of the Schlage (non-motorized, and a person has to be present to perform the locking/unlocking)... is this message just sent when they attempt to turn the lock and it doesn't fully extend?
 
I guess it's a bit more difficult to wrap my head around this, since a person has to be present... it seems that the user would realize that they weren't able to engage the lock properly and they could fix the issue. It's a bit more difficult with the Kwikset, where you can completely lock/unlock the door without anyone present... and if it jams there isn't too much that you can do while you are away!

 

[picta]

Based on the nature of the Schlage (non-motorized, and a person has to be present to perform the locking/unlocking)... is this message just sent when they attempt to turn the lock and it doesn't fully extend?
 
I guess it's a bit more difficult to wrap my head around this, since a person has to be present... it seems that the user would realize that they weren't able to engage the lock properly and they could fix the issue. It's a bit more difficult with the Kwikset, where you can completely lock/unlock the door without anyone present... and if it jams there isn't too much that you can do while you are away!

 
Why would you want to lock the door when you are away? The Kwikset has a "lock" button that you can press while leaving and make sure the door is locked properly. If you have a regular lock and forgot to lock it, it will stay that way until you get back home. But automated lock can be locked remotely, if you actually closed the door.  You can have a sensor on the door to tell you the door status and not lock the door automatically if it is open. You can have rules that will lock your doors at night, and if the lock jams then get a notification. There is a lot of added convenience with automated locks, but they are not designed to protect against all possible "user errors".

 

[KenN]

Based on the nature of the Schlage (non-motorized, and a person has to be present to perform the locking/unlocking)... is this message just sent when they attempt to turn the lock and it doesn't fully extend?

  
The Schlage BE469 series are motorized.  I have two installed and one on order!  The BE369 and FE599 series are non-motorized.

 

[KenN]

Why would you want to lock the door when you are away? 

 
Trust me on this one ...
 
When you're leaving the house, and your wife is yammering orders at you, and the infant kid is screaming, and the toddler is trying to run out the driveway and into the street and your hands are full of crap for your day trip, etc, etc.  It's pretty easy to get into the car and be 5 minutes down the road before that nagging thought arrives - "did I remember to lock the door?".  It sure is nice to be able to just pull over somewhere convenient and check my phone to see if all doors are locked and if not, it's just one touch to lock them!

 

[drvnbysound]

Trust me on this one ...
 
When you're leaving the house, and your wife is yammering orders at you, and the infant kid is screaming, and the toddler is trying to run out the driveway and into the street and your hands are full of crap for your day trip, etc, etc.  It's pretty easy to get into the car and be 5 minutes down the road before that nagging thought arrives - "did I remember to lock the door?".  It sure is nice to be able to just pull over somewhere convenient and check my phone to see if all doors are locked and if not, it's just one touch to lock them!

Exactly!
 
Heck, I've left my house a few times without all of the above, and simply forgot to lock it. I get halfway to work and begin to question if I did or not... so I go ahead and check... most of the time I had locked it and just didn't remember doing so, but there has been a couple of times where I actually didn't lock and and was able to do so remotely.

 

[drvnbysound]

Why would you want to lock the door when you are away? The Kwikset has a "lock" button that you can press while leaving and make sure the door is locked properly. If you have a regular lock and forgot to lock it, it will stay that way until you get back home. But automated lock can be locked remotely, if you actually closed the door.  You can have a sensor on the door to tell you the door status and not lock the door automatically if it is open. You can have rules that will lock your doors at night, and if the lock jams then get a notification. There is a lot of added convenience with automated locks, but they are not designed to protect against all possible "user errors".

BTW: I don't have mine set to lock automatically. I like that I can be working in the yard or walk to my mailbox and not have my door lock back on me

 

[drvnbysound]

The Schlage BE469 series are motorized.  I have two installed and one on order!  The BE369 and FE599 series are non-motorized.

Motorized in the sense that they actually move the deadbolt? Or motorized, where they release their clutch mechanism and allow a user to turn the lock?
 
It's been a while since I looked into the Schlage locks, but the last time I checked they still required a person to be present (with their clutch-style system).

 

[IndyMike]

drvnbysound and George M,
 
Thank you both for confirming that the Schlage/Kwikset deabolts will recognize and error when extending the bolt.  This will get me out of the woodworking business for the front entry door.
 
I've searched for this information in the past and came up empty.  This morning (armed with the information you provided) I found the following on the Kwikset Zwave: http://s7d5.scene7.com/is/content/BDHHI/ApplicationNote-UsingASCII-Z-Wave-Locks
 
Table 3 on page 8 describes "Alarm notification Events".  The events include various battery level notices as well as "bolt jammed" errors.
 
I have not yet found a similar document for the Schlage motorized locks.  I'll post back if/when I find one.
 
Thanks guys - you've made my better half much happier.

 

[drvnbysound]

Nice! Thanks for sharing that. I've just been using the simple commands that are in the Elk M1XSLZW instructions (http://www.smarthome.com/manuals/72845.pdf - specifically pages 10 and 11) ... they definitely don't get nearly that detailed.
 
EDIT: The version I have also has information about the battery status, as well as error messages, but with a quick glance I don't see that mentioned in the one I linked above...