Branded NVR vs. Home Built Unit

[drvnbysound]

I record all of my cameras 24/7 and currently at [almost] max camera settings. I have 3MP cameras and have them bumped down to 2MP (1080P). So, 1920x1080, 30fps.
 
I have a 4TB HDD for recording only, and currently have 4 cameras. Based on my settings in BI I have that HDD restricted (needs to be adjusted, obviously), but here's where I am at right now: 1.5TB used. That amount of data is covering 2 weeks; 15 days actually.
 
I really enjoy the higher resolution. I came from using an analog system before this and the comparison - well, there is no comparison. If you want some actual screen shots let me know and I'll provide them.
 
Regarding frame rate, yeah, I have them at 30fps now, because 1) I don't have a CPU problem handling it and 2) I don't have a storage problem. If I get to a point with either, I'll reduce FPS on certain or all cameras. You can watch video at 15-20fps and not notice a difference [in most scenarios] compared to 30fps.
 
Re: the changing frame rates. I know there are some softwares that are able to do that. I don't remember if there is a way to do that in BI or not. There isn't a specific check box or entry for it, but that doesn't mean it's not possible... I know I haven't looked because I just record everything at 30fps right now anyway.

 

[pete_c]

I have noticed that the higher the MP the more the camera does relating to multiple streams.  Having RTSP and MJPEG streaming helps a bit.  You can now also purchase fish eyes lenses.  While it is nice to change the focal length of the camera remotely typically the cameras are statically configured once set up with the NVR. Personally I like the features of analogue motion sensor / or other triggers which can connect to the NVR.  Motion triggers while better these days (video analytics) is not soup and really not that good for outside use.
 
I am also seeing the Onvif compliance between different models of cameras which does help with an NVR.  There still is seen though some uniqueness of the Onvif standards between different manufacturers.  Some manufactures do provide their API stuff for playing with.
 
There is a good article on the ZM wiki relating to multiple streams, frame rate, color or black and white, memory utilization, pixel size et al.

 

[drvnbysound]

I've had my NVR setup for around a year now and have motion alerts from my front door camera sent to my phone. I could probably count on one hand the times the motion detection sent me a false alert - and those were shadows. I'm not quite as familiar with the consistency of my other cameras simply because I don't get those alerts texted to my phone.
 
Relating to shadows, BI has the option to enable motion based on Color, Brightness, or both. Mine are set for both, but in the cases of issues with shadows people have enabled day time profiles for color only, and night time profiles for brightness only.
 
I read a post today which stated that trip line and other video analytic features will be coming to Blue Iris in the future.

 

[TurboSam]

Trip line analytics in BI would be great.  
 
One if the reasons I use Sighthound is for exactly that kind of feature (and its enter/exit defined area triggers).  
 
I have BI set up to do motion sensing, but it monitors a camera facing the front walk with some foliage overlap that I can not screen out (or I lose coverage) and thus tend to get more false positives than I would like.

 

[drvnbysound]

Trip line analytics in BI would be great.  
 
One if the reasons I use Sighthound is for exactly that kind of feature (and its enter/exit defined area triggers).  
 
I have BI set up to do motion sensing, but it monitors a camera facing the front walk with some foliage overlap that I can not screen out (or I lose coverage) and thus tend to get more false positives than I would like.

 
Have you tried changing the BI motion to color only to see if that resolves your false positives?
 
Also assuming you've tuned the size and contrast filters, and have "object detection" turned on as well?

 

[Del91574]

Ok at the risk of sounding totally clueless, what would be a recommeded stream rate for a cam? I have been looking at 1.3 and 3MP cams, but am i wasting my time with high MP if I really will never use the full potential? I can imagine that cams facing a more important entry location would be at a higher rate, while one that just covers a general backyard could run much lower. I guess more planning is required. This reminds me of when I was doing the power supply calculations for my M1.

Is there such a situation where you would constant stream at a lower rate, but then jump up to higher rate when an event occurs? Not sure if this is even possible.

You can change live vs. alarm FPS and quality. Pretty common in the industry and used to save storage space if you're constantly recording vs. running motion or analytics.
 
15FPS is real time viewing. You're really not going to see too much of a difference between 15 and 30 FPS unless you need to go forensic and get images by the frame.
 
You'd need to consider what the recording appliance is when considering the FPS, quality and size of the image. Just because it's a 3MP image, doesn't mean it's necessary or beneficial. Usually the larger MP cameras are for covering a larger area with detail but removing the pixel artifacts when using lesser MP cameras or smaller image sizes to get away from the distortion factor.
 
A note about FPS....most movie cameras are running around 24 FPS, but for motion to appear as real life, 15FPS is fine.

 

[ccthbsh01]

 Re: the changing frame rates. I know there are some softwares that are able to do that. I don't remember if there is a way to do that in BI or not. There isn't a specific check box or entry for it, but that doesn't mean it's not possible... I know I haven't looked because I just record everything at 30fps right now anyway.

You can do it in BI, but they say in the help that it will increase the CPU utilization significantly and are recommending against it. They say you should rather adjust the FPS in the camera settings, which obviously makes it impossible to play & record at different FPS rates.

 

[Del91574]

You can do it in BI, but they say in the help that it will increase the CPU utilization significantly and are recommending against it. They say you should rather adjust the FPS in the camera settings, which obviously makes it impossible to play & record at different FPS rates.

That in itself points to brewing your own solution would be a compromise. Bare bones embedded hardware can do this easily. If you look at the methodology, you don't throttle the camera, you throttle the recorder, as if the camera is hobbled, you're not going to be able to use the different streams or really have a system that performs.
 
Figure you're at $50 for the software, then whatever the OS and machine you have it installed on......it's really not saving that much money unless you have a large VM that you're installing it on compared to buying a professional level NVR out of the gate. The machine it's installed on will be the limiting factor. For the cost, once you factor it all in, it's not that much cheaper than picking up an NVR already built with enough capabilities out of hte box
 
For basic and general 24/7 recording, it might be a good solution, but by comparison, it's got a lot of compromises compared to an embedded piece of hardware (which even the pro stuff, they've gotten pretty cheap)

 

[RobNJ]

This has been a good education.  After doing some homework this weekend on NVRs, I have a decent headache,but a better understanding.
 
I am really liking this Samsung unit.  After digging deep into the user manual, I see all the bases covered that I am looking for or that others have brought up  (also does the two bitrates for live view, vs recording).
 
The last puzzle piece is the smartphone apps.  The spec sheet says there are apps for android and ios, but in the play store or app store have Samsung apps for other NVR models, not this one.  I am hoping this is just a typo or old app details.  Another call into Samsung is needed.  My alternate branded NVR would be the Hikvision, but to me the sw is lacking compared to the Samsung.
 
Update:  Got off the phone with Samsung and the correct app is called:  iPOLiS mobile

 

[TurboSam]

Have you tried changing the BI motion to color only to see if that resolves your false positives?
 
Also assuming you've tuned the size and contrast filters, and have "object detection" turned on as well?

 
I've tuned the filters and have object detection turned on, but I've been using both color and brightness so I'll give color only a try.  I also realized I could try and play a little more with hot spots and see if that helps.
 
Thanks for the suggestions.

 

[RobNJ]

Has anyone used an NVR in conjunction with ELK M1?  For example, on event like alarm trigger in M1, you could start recording on NVR.  I have output expander on the M1 and since the NVR has inputs/outputs, could be done pretty easily.  Not sure if there are any other use situations.  On the input side, I only have 1 free zone on the M1, so my options are limited without expanding.

 

[Del91574]

Generally the recording portion is integral to the NVR and not triggered by the M1, assuming no analytics on the NVR (which the majority have motion detection of some sort) you would have the NVR record 24/7, or record on motion only (if you're running a small HDD/high FPS & quality or retention is needed) and then either kick the quality and FPS up on alarm or you could also drive the open collector (typically) input to increase the FPS/quality on alarm.
 
usually, with lower end, you would run 24/7 recording at a reasonable quality/FPS/size and then only kick it up on motion, however you'll need to plan the loading accordingly and prealarm/postalarm times and recording. Be prepared for many false detections until it's dialed in. We have massive VMS and we've even had to get the software vendor involved to tweak the system, and I've got 20 years in myself, with others that have double that....

 

[RobNJ]

For reference I found this NVR storage calculator.  Makes quick work of the math:
 
https://www.supercircuits.com/resources/tools/security-nvr-storage-calculator

 

[Del91574]

It'll get you close enough to estimate, but should not be considered gospel.

 

[drvnbysound]

I've tuned the filters and have object detection turned on, but I've been using both color and brightness so I'll give color only a try.  I also realized I could try and play a little more with hot spots and see if that helps.
 
Thanks for the suggestions.

 
Hot spots ignore the size and contrast filters and will alert on ANY motion within the hotspot area - I don't think this is what you want.