California Contractor Law ?

[davefred99]

Hi, I am new to this site and have a question for any California HA installers. I have been a C-7 Low voltage contractor for the past 10 or so years . My main business is Business TV or Satellite Based distance leaning systems. When I first became a licensed contractor I swear it included anything up to 300volts but not full house wiring. For instance if i needed to add an electrical outlet to plug my equipment into, it was legal to do so. Now when I check the current CLSB classification info under Low voltage C-7 classification it states wiring under 91 volts which would exclude Home Automation such as X-10 or Insteon. Can anyone here confirm or dispel my reading of this.
If true I have been breaking the law for a long time and didn't know it. Funny thin is that I have even pulled a couple of permits that included adding extra electrical outlets but they were always specifically being added to use for my equipment.

 

[hockeypuck]

Hi, I am new to this site and have a question for any California HA installers. I have been a C-7 Low voltage contractor for the past 10 or so years . My main business is Business TV or Satellite Based distance leaning systems. When I first became a licensed contractor I swear it included anything up to 300volts but not full house wiring. For instance if i needed to add an electrical outlet to plug my equipment into, it was legal to do so. Now when I check the current CLSB classification info under Low voltage C-7 classification it states wiring under 91 volts which would exclude Home Automation such as X-10 or Insteon. Can anyone here confirm or dispel my reading of this.
If true I have been breaking the law for a long time and didn't know it. Funny thin is that I have even pulled a couple of permits that included adding extra electrical outlets but they were always specifically being added to use for my equipment.

If they did change the law and you can show that you have been in the industry for some time, you maybe able to get "granfathered" into the license. I do not know about you specific state, so good luck.

 

[Squintz]

You are probably better off sending the board an e-mail or letter and ask them what your options are. Here in Maryland you have to be a Master to pull any new circuits. I have a limited license which allows me to install fixtures and replace devices but I am not allowed to pull any wires.

If you write a letter or e-mail you could simply leave your name out of it so if you don't get the answer you want you can just continue as if you never knew. My personal opinion is that the electrical board has too much power creating rules. I had to prove 7 years experience just to get a limited license in my local area. Thats not even a state wide license. I understand the need for a master to have experience but someone who is just pulling alarm wires and CAT5 and swaping out fixtures and devices should not need a masters and 7 years experience. One years experience is good enough for those kinds of things. I understand needing a masters for 120v+ circuits.

 

[pkoslow]

Dave@dnlsat,

There are only two electrical classifications in California. C7 Low voltage - not to exceed 91v and C10 Electrical which covers everything else, electrical including the low voltage.

In the last two years they've really tightened up the requirements for the C10 license. You either have to have 4800hrs (residential) or 8000hrs (commercial) experience to qualify to take the exam, or have been enrolled in an approved training/apprentice program. Electrical contractors used to be able to allow unlicensed employees work under them if they had a qualified license holder within the company who would be responsible for the work. This is no longer true and EVERY contractor doing high voltage electrical work either needs to be licensed or enrolled as an apprentice at one of the qualified schools.

The key for you (and me) is that there's a clause which states the following: "If a specialty contractor has a contract for a certain job, he may do work other than that which he is licensed for if it is subordinate to and inseparable from the main contract work".

This clause isn't very clear, but I take it to mean that I can install an outlet behind a tv or replace a couple light switches if it's part of a home theater install, or patch and paint a few small holes that I created to retrofit wiring. I do partner with a couple C10 contractors that I'll bring in for jobs like whole-house automated lighting where the job includes installing or swapping out more than 2-3 switches.

Lots of good info at the following links if you want to spend some time wading through it...

http://www.cslb.ca.gov/
http://www.dir.ca.gov/DAS/ElectricalTrade.htm

Cheers,
Paul

 

[davefred99]

Dave@dnlsat,

There are only two electrical classifications in California. C7 Low voltage - not to exceed 91v and C10 Electrical which covers everything else, electrical including the low voltage.

In the last two years they've really tightened up the requirements for the C10 license. You either have to have 4800hrs (residential) or 8000hrs (commercial) experience to qualify to take the exam, or have been enrolled in an approved training/apprentice program. Electrical contractors used to be able to allow unlicensed employees work under them if they had a qualified license holder within the company who would be responsible for the work. This is no longer true and EVERY contractor doing high voltage electrical work either needs to be licensed or enrolled as an apprentice at one of the qualified schools.

The key for you (and me) is that there's a clause which states the following: "If a specialty contractor has a contract for a certain job, he may do work other than that which he is licensed for if it is subordinate to and inseparable from the main contract work".

This clause isn't very clear, but I take it to mean that I can install an outlet behind a tv or replace a couple light switches if it's part of a home theater install, or patch and paint a few small holes that I created to retrofit wiring. I do partner with a couple C10 contractors that I'll bring in for jobs like whole-house automated lighting where the job includes installing or swapping out more than 2-3 switches.

Lots of good info at the following links if you want to spend some time wading through it...

http://www.cslb.ca.gov/
http://www.dir.ca.gov/DAS/ElectricalTrade.htm

Cheers,
Paul

This is/has always been my understanding too but the "C7 Low voltage - not to exceed 91v" Statement would seem to imply otherwise. I might call the State Board for a clarification statement. I do not see how most home theater or Data contractors could comply because most like me do not have the qualifications to be licensed as a c-10 electrician and most electricians know very little about A/V Data & Home Automation integration. I am very experienced in Video and Data 21yrs in business but Home Automation is something I am just getting into. My business is mostly with commercial Business TV & Satellite systems. I have done my fair share of Projection and A/V in small offices & Conference rooms. I fell that lighting control is a natural extension to my work and would like to offer it as part of my services.
Dave

 

[davefred99]

Dave@dnlsat,

There are only two electrical classifications in California. C7 Low voltage - not to exceed 91v and C10 Electrical which covers everything else, electrical including the low voltage.

In the last two years they've really tightened up the requirements for the C10 license. You either have to have 4800hrs (residential) or 8000hrs (commercial) experience to qualify to take the exam, or have been enrolled in an approved training/apprentice program. Electrical contractors used to be able to allow unlicensed employees work under them if they had a qualified license holder within the company who would be responsible for the work. This is no longer true and EVERY contractor doing high voltage electrical work either needs to be licensed or enrolled as an apprentice at one of the qualified schools.

The key for you (and me) is that there's a clause which states the following: "If a specialty contractor has a contract for a certain job, he may do work other than that which he is licensed for if it is subordinate to and inseparable from the main contract work".

This clause isn't very clear, but I take it to mean that I can install an outlet behind a tv or replace a couple light switches if it's part of a home theater install, or patch and paint a few small holes that I created to retrofit wiring. I do partner with a couple C10 contractors that I'll bring in for jobs like whole-house automated lighting where the job includes installing or swapping out more than 2-3 switches.

Lots of good info at the following links if you want to spend some time wading through it...

http://www.cslb.ca.gov/
http://www.dir.ca.gov/DAS/ElectricalTrade.htm

Cheers,
Paul

This is/has always been my understanding too but the "C7 Low voltage - not to exceed 91v" Statement would seem to imply otherwise. I might call the State Board for a clarification statement. I do not see how most home theater or Data contractors could comply because most like me do not have the qualifications to be licensed as a c-10 electrician and most electricians know very little about A/V Data & Home Automation integration. I am very experienced in Video and Data 21yrs in business but Home Automation is something I am just getting into. My business is mostly with commercial Business TV & Satellite systems. I have done my fair share of Projection and A/V in small offices & Conference rooms. I fell that lighting control is a natural extension to my work and would like to offer it as part of my services.
Dave

Just got off the phone with the California State License board. At first they said No I could not wire a new light switch because its over 91 volts. Than I further explained using X-10 switch replacement as an example and he then asked If I was wiring a new outlet or just swapping out or connecting to the existing one. I told him I was referring just simple swap outs. The Then said the Key words. I one must be essential too the work your doing and two be incidental. I further explained some scenarios like adding remote activities via wireless remote and PC integration for Home theater applications. He assured me that for the most part It was fully within my classification as long as it was essential (meaning it needs to have 110v power to function) and incidental ( part of other ongoing low voltage work). He said the only time I might get into trouble is when the only thing that I am doing is adding electrical outlets or switches and no other work is being performed. So basically I my take is I can do Home automation as long as its not the only thing I am doing.

 

[pkoslow]

Just got off the phone with the California State License board. At first they said No I could not wire a new light switch because its over 91 volts. Than I further explained using X-10 switch replacement as an example and he then asked If I was wiring a new outlet or just swapping out or connecting to the existing one. I told him I was referring just simple swap outs. The Then said the Key words. I one must be essential too the work your doing and two be incidental. I further explained some scenarios like adding remote activities via wireless remote and PC integration for Home theater applications. He assured me that for the most part It was fully within my classification as long as it was essential (meaning it needs to have 110v power to function) and incidental ( part of other ongoing low voltage work). He said the only time I might get into trouble is when the only thing that I am doing is adding electrical outlets or switches and no other work is being performed. So basically I my take is I can do Home automation as long as its not the only thing I am doing.

Pleased to see that you got the same answer directly from the CSBL. I inquired with a few different people (at the CSBL) and received conflicting information. One of three gave me the answer you received and I also found it some where in the "fine print" but was unable to locate it again in any documentation when I went searching for it this morning to back up my post.

Cheers,
Paul