Consolidation Strategy For Automation PCs

[upstatemike]

i am running on my HA server:

starCOM - for my timecommander+
xPLHAL - to interface between xPL & xAP apps on this machine & on the network
HAL deluxe - VR, telephony
TTS - at&t natural voices via xPL TTS
IIS - running my HA web interface
security cams - via 2 cascaded 4x1 video switchers
baby monitor - audio from baby's camera
TVersity media server - for video to dlink dsm-320
backup & file server
windows media encoder - to stream video for me to watch @ work

it's a 2.6 ghz celeron w/ 1 gig memory & 500 gb of disk running win2k

i am thinking of putting slimserver & medianet on there as well

I don't know what is going to happen when you add those last two items but it will be interesting to find out. When I am streaming from my slimserver, I typically am running between 8 and 12 squeezeboxes and slimp3s. Not sure if that would affect anything or not.

I am currently looking at a lot of the stuff you are using, especially xPL TTS, xPL Phone, and xPLHAL. I still don't know if starCOM is within my abilities or not but if it was< I could probably use it to link PowerHome to my Stargate which would simplify things alot.

When you say video switchers are you talking about external boxes or CCTV input cards?

 

[upstatemike]

Well, I know i'm a big CQC fan and all, but I'm an even bigger fan of removing points of failure. I'd be worried about programs bumping up against each other. If the only thing you're looking to do with CQC is manage a DVD changer, and if you're getting MainLobby to deal with HomeSeer, why not use MainLobby's DVDChanger plugin?

Clearly I can't use all this stuff together but I can't rule anything out until I can identify a combination that covers everything I need.

 

[damage]

I don't know what is going to happen when you add those last two items but it will be interesting to find out. When I am streaming from my slimserver, I typically am running between 8 and 12 squeezeboxes and slimp3s. Not sure if that would affect anything or not.

I am currently looking at a lot of the stuff you are using, especially xPL TTS, xPL Phone, and xPLHAL. I still don't know if starCOM is within my abilities or not but if it was< I could probably use it to link PowerHome to my Stargate which would simplify things alot.

When you say video switchers are you talking about external boxes or CCTV input cards?

i don't know what's going to happen either so i've been slow to move those onto this server. i'm running 2 slimp3s and 5 rio receivers but serving them from a different pc.

starCOM (sC) has a learning curve. there is no click and run like homeseer/winevm. it's all scripting (jscript or vbscript). but it allows me to integrate all the disparate things very tightly. through wscript, HAL deluxe can issue commands to my tc+ via sC calls (in response to VR, etc). xPL/xAP stuff is also tightly integrated via scripting in xPLHAL where i can instantiate the sC object and access/change all tc+ variables/x10/relays/etc in response to xPL/xAP events. and the sC object is instantiated in my intranet web pages, again exposing all tc+ functions to the web. xPL allows me to tie slimserver & medianet to sC and my tc+.

my security cams are funneled through external 4x1 IR controllable composite video switchers. when there is motion in a zone, the tc+ issues IR commands to switch the video input to that zone, which are recorded on that pc.

 

[upstatemike]

I'll take another look at sC but similiar to my issue with the PowerHome serial object, I will likely have to put it off for quite awhile due to the steep learning curve (and my shallow mind).

 

[TonyNo]

Getting OT, but...

PH serial is not a big deal. Opening the port is a big command, but that sets all the parameters...

ph_comopen ( comnum, comport, bps, parity, databits, stopbits, rthreshold, sthreshold, handshaking, inputmode, nulldiscard, rtsenable, dtrenable, parityreplace, id )

This is really not as bad as it looks.

This is from my CID macro. COM control #4, COM3:9600:N:8:1, then call macro CID2 when data arrives...

ph_comopen( 4, 3, 9600, "N", 8, 1, 1, 0, 0, 1, 0, 1, 1, "?", "CID2" )

The next line sends the CID init command to control #4...

ph_comsendstring( 4, "at#cid=1\013" )

When a character arrives, you can get one at a time [ph_comrecvchar( comnum )], or an n-length block [ph_comrecvstring( comnum, length )].

 

[upstatemike]

Getting back to the question of hardware allocation, it looks like there are limits to consolidation beyond simple processing power. Obviously, if you are using a sound card for Home Automation announcements, you can't also use it as part of an HTPC setup unless you supress most announcements whenever somebody is watching TV, etc.

My current thinking is that you will always need at least 2 PCs. An HA controller, and a media controller/HTPC/CCTV controller. I just don't see any way to do it with just one box.

 

[damage]

Getting back to the question of hardware allocation, it looks like there are limits to consolidation beyond simple processing power. Obviously, if you are using a sound card for Home Automation announcements, you can't also use it as part of an HTPC setup unless you supress most announcements whenever somebody is watching TV, etc.

My current thinking is that you will always need at least 2 PCs. An HA controller, and a media controller/HTPC/CCTV controller. I just don't see any way to do it with just one box.

you can add multiple soundcards - (use usb sound devices if you don't have any slots)

i just added slimserver & medianet to my ha server. i'm going to see if there are any usability issues and how the cpu utilization is affected.

 

[IVB]

Or that M-Audio Delta 410 soundcard, that can do 4 concurrent audio streams.

 

[upstatemike]

I looked into multiple sound cards but Windows was never designed to work that way so there is a lot of potential for problems. You have to get different brands with different drivers, and you still might get flaky results (or so I understand).

The MediaNet option of sending audio through SliMP3s strikes me as more reliable way to go (assuming they add Squeezebox support).

This is another area I keep kicking around, trying to make up my mind which way to go.

 

[huggy59]

The problem I ran into was three or four programs all trying to use TTS and/or VR. They don't all play nice and then you get contention that causes all sorts of issues, and eventually something dies, locks up, serious delays, etc.

The programs I have tried here that use TTS and VR cause some issues when run in various combinations on one box: HomeSeer 1.7 or HomeSeer 2.0, VWS, NetCallerID, and CyberGenie phone system. I suspect you'll have similar issues as you start loading up the programs that have feature sets that overlap...

Try anything like streaming webcams with motion sensing and periodic FTP on top of audio, and there are even more asynchronous events that can pre-empt each other. That's why I run a few machines - for performance reasons.

My main HA machine currently runs HS 2.0, VWS Inet Edition doing FTP updates to a remote web site, CyberGenie phone system, a couple web servers (HS and IIS), and a few other things like custom scripts, MRTG, and HS extensions. It is a 2.4GHz AMD box with a gig of RAM and it does pretty well, though I see evidence of something in HS causing some clock ticks being skipped (OS timeclock loses time only when HS is running in combination with other programs). I used to also run the Slim Server on it, but I get too many pauses and hiccups in the streams and the Slim web server. I am probably going to get the CyberGenie off this box as it really doesn't integrate with the other programs and therefore doesn't need to be on the same box - that might clear up some more issues.

I also use VMWare and it is great, BUT it has limited hardware capabilities. I can't use my multiple serial port card in VM, so I am limited to two native serial ports in each VM session. Since only 4 are supported natiuvely, that limits hardware communications access. Audio support in VM isn't 100%, either.

All I can say is test all combinations of products together and learn about their interactions and interdependencies that might cause unforeseen problems. Try starting them in difference orders. Even when you get them working together well, an update in one program may upset the balance. Good luck!

 

[upstatemike]

You are pretty much confirming my conclusion that a one box solution is not possible. Even a 2 box solution is probably going to be pushing the limits in most installations.

 

[electron]

Huggy, just a FIY...

You can use the serial ports by using serial over IP software. I do this myself with a 16port rocket port card, some serial port to IP software (commercial but affordable, will try to find the title later), and the free hw_vsp software. With USB over IP software, and Serial over IP software, you can pretty much support any external device in your VM's.

 

[TonyNo]

e, got some names for your USB-Over-IP and Serial-Over-IP choices, too?

 

[IVB]

I looked into multiple sound cards but Windows was never designed to work that way so there is a lot of potential for problems. You have to get different brands with different drivers, and you still might get flaky results (or so I understand).

If you have the desire, you could always try that M-Audio. It works perfectly for me and many others. No downtime at all. It's only $60-ish on eBay, and you could probably sell it back for the same amount you paid if you dislike it.

Having multiple PCs to serve audio streams is really overkill, significantly deteriorates any ROI.

 

[upstatemike]

Having multiple PCs to serve audio streams is really overkill, significantly deteriorates any ROI.

I'm not suggesting multiple audio servers. Just separating the audio server or HTPC from the box serving up automation announcements.

I think the M-Audio solution is pretty cool but it doesn't scale well. I have a dozen Squeezebox players that are fed from 1 Slimserver and can easily add many more just plugging them in.