CQC is not cheap!

[Dean Roddey]

One point of confusion for me has been how the different hardware talks to the PC and then to the software. I have seen that many wired devices are RS232, but I know the typical PC has 1 or 2 serial ports on the system board. So there mst be some device that converts RS232 to enet or USB or something. How about the 1-Wire stuff? And the RF stuff? If I chose CQC tonight, I still would not know what hardware to interface to it. Conversely, if I chose hardware (which I did) I don't know if CQC can talk to it and if so, via what interface hardware.

But that's not really overview stuff. If you put that in an overview designed for people just coming by and browsing, you'll have lost them already. Anything that would be designed to provide a broad overview for people who want the 10 minute tour would be more stuff like "you can make pretty interfaces to control your stuff and they might look like these" type of stuff.

We might be able to do a tutorial video that gets into some of that perhaps. But it's a big subject and we'd only be able to touch on the most basic aspects of it.

 

[Skibum]

It's all done with smoke and mirrors.

 

[ver0776]

If you decide in the end that you want to make your own, consider joining an OpenSource project like mine and then you can focus your development efforts on just the pieces you need. If you are a Linux guy, same goes for Mr. House.

I have spent 1.5years now throwing ALL my free time into making my own. It was overambitious and way more work than it is worth just to do your own house. I could have spent $20,000 on software and it would have been cheaper than the time I put into vCrib. So if you are going to spend time making your own, maybe starting with an existing base will help you be successfull and much quicker than starting anything from scratch.


Vaughn
The Virtual Crib

 

[sic0048]

Unfortuately, you are up against a time constraint. I don't think you will be able to make an informed decision in a couple of days. That being said, I think a good wiring plan is more important than the software/hardware choice you end up with. I'd take the next day or two and make sure I had every conceivable wire run to every conceivable location. Hardware and software will change with time, but your wiring is going to be pretty much fixed after the sheetrock goes up. You need to make sure you have a robust enough wiring plan to cover the future - even though it is an unknown quantity.

Okay, but how about an overview? Maybe some screen shots? Ideally, a list of specific hardware it supports.

One point of confusion for me has been how the different hardware talks to the PC and then to the software. I have seen that many wired devices are RS232, but I know the typical PC has 1 or 2 serial ports on the system board. So there mst be some device that converts RS232 to enet or USB or something. How about the 1-Wire stuff? And the RF stuff? If I chose CQC tonight, I still would not know what hardware to interface to it. Conversely, if I chose hardware (which I did) I don't know if CQC can talk to it and if so, via what interface hardware.

Without knowing at least what CQC can talk to and how, how can I plan a system? Maybe the pros already know this stuff, but the rest of us don't. I realize we're not you're primary market and that's of course fine, but it sure woulden't hurt to make this information available.

Also, i realize you have a 30 day trial and that's great, but without knowing what hardware I need before I download... You see what I mean.

Maybe all this is available and I have not found it yet. I am new to this stuff.

There is a list of supported devices and I think Dean pointed you to it. Both the official drivers and the drivers being tested. It's a pretty big list and it is growing everyday. That is one thing that even I've seen with CQC (and I've only been folowing it for less than 1 yr). It is really starting to take off as far as the number of supported devices. I think it will continue to grow expenentically too. As there are more users, there will inevitably be more devices that are being used and more drivers will be written to support those new devices.

Also, be sure to look at the forums - under user systems. There are many user systems on "display" there. You can see what their interfaces look like, and most people take the time to discribe the hardware they are controlling.

As far as the number of serial ports are concerned, most users end up with some sort of serial port expander. Either a PCI card that fits in the computer (MOXI makes a 8 port serial PCI card), or some sort of external device that multiplies the number of ports (DIGI makes some of these units if I remember correctly).

Good luck. Don't worry about a control system yet, worry about your wiring and plan for ANY control system.

 

[Dean Roddey]

Our tendancy to attract more technical users is one of the reasons that our driver list has really grown very rapidly, because more of them tend to have the software skills required. And since we don't allow drivers to be written in third party languages (where they could do whatever they want and destablize the system), we are fairly safe in this regard relative to other products. There is always some risk in having third party developed drivers, but it's a fact of life since there are far more devices out there than even the largest company could develop and support on its own. And since all of our drivers (except for the handful of more advanced ones that we do in C++) are open source, they will always be supportable by the community, even if the original developer moves on.

 

[jarcher]

Unfortuately, you are up against a time constraint. I don't think you will be able to make an informed decision in a couple of days. That being said, I think a good wiring plan is more important than the software/hardware choice you end up with. I'd take the next day or two and make sure I had every conceivable wire run to every conceivable location. Hardware and software will change with time, but your wiring is going to be pretty much fixed after the sheetrock goes up. You need to make sure you have a robust enough wiring plan to cover the future - even though it is an unknown quantity.

I had the same idea. Instead of lots of wire I am going to try to put in lots of conduit. It looks like I'll be able to run 2 unbroken runs of 3/4 inch LV conduit from basement to attic. From the attic I can go down into any wall or room, and from the basement I can go up into many. I am also going to pull 2 20A circuits to the attic and probably several runs of CAT 5e.

You're completely right. I can't even decide on a thermostat before Friday. I already ordered the Vizia Z-Wave switches and dimmers, but I think I'll be happy with those. The scene controllers and my Harmony 890 will let me accomplish quite a bit. After I get that running, I'll add software and more toys.

Dean, thanks for pointing me at your supported hardware list. That's a great list and it was very interesting looking through it.

Ver0776, I didn't realize there was existing OS HA software. I had Googled for it but didn;t find it. I'll certianally check it out. I understand completely about the amount of time required to code up something worth having and I agree, it would be batter to join an existing OS project than to start from scratch. Especially if the politics are not too ugly <Grin>.

Thanks to everyone. I'll post my progress. Maybe I'll take a few pictures while the wall is still open and post them for everyone's amusement. This wall is a mess. Pocket door frames on either end, stairs and the needed blocking on the other side, framed air ducts and now blocking to support the TV and speakers. Next trick is to sandwich the conduit in.

My brother who is helping me is a professional contractor. He thinks this stuff is really cool, so I have been encouraging him to add a HA speciality to his business. So now he wants to buy a demo house and fully automate it. The work never ends...

 

[brotsten]

I had the same idea. Instead of lots of wire I am going to try to put in lots of conduit. It looks like I'll be able to run 2 unbroken runs of 3/4 inch LV conduit from basement to attic. From the attic I can go down into any wall or room, and from the basement I can go up into many.

Too small. You should put in a couple of 2" pipes. Trust me....

Brian

 

[jarcher]

I had the same idea. Instead of lots of wire I am going to try to put in lots of conduit. It looks like I'll be able to run 2 unbroken runs of 3/4 inch LV conduit from basement to attic. From the attic I can go down into any wall or room, and from the basement I can go up into many.

Too small. You should put in a couple of 2" pipes. Trust me....

I believe you, but they won't fit. Too much blocking and such in the way, plus I need to make a few 30 degree bends. The LV conduit 3/4 inch is flexible. That's why I'm running 2 of them. I wish I had room for the 2 inch pipes!

 

[Steve]

Personally, I would run all of the wire that is 'known', like security, room drops, etc up front and install conduit as a backup plan for future stuff. I would also put the largest pipe you possibly can and make sure you have a good solid pull string in it!

 

[wuench]

I had the same idea. Instead of lots of wire I am going to try to put in lots of conduit. It looks like I'll be able to run 2 unbroken runs of 3/4 inch LV conduit from basement to attic. From the attic I can go down into any wall or room, and from the basement I can go up into many.

Too small. You should put in a couple of 2" pipes. Trust me....

I believe you, but they won't fit. Too much blocking and such in the way, plus I need to make a few 30 degree bends. The LV conduit 3/4 inch is flexible. That's why I'm running 2 of them. I wish I had room for the 2 inch pipes!

You can get 2" Carlon Flexible or 1", you just can't buy it at home depot. You can get it from Smarthome, Worthington, etc. I ran 4 2" runs. 2" can easily fit in a standard wall. If you can't run the 2", run as big and as many as you can to compensate.

 

[ver0776]

I ran tubing and even though there was plenty of room and a pull-string in the tube, the 3rd cable seemed to get so wrapped around the others that it got stuck and I wound up cutting up the tubing just to get my wires back out. So small tubing with bends is probably going to be tricky getting more that 1-2 wires in it.

I think if I ran all the wires though at the same time, it would have taken 5 pretty easy, I did not factor in the twisting and wrapping of wires around each other, so just something to think about... I definitly recomend the largest tubes available if that location is going to possibly get multiple wires... My tubing was exposed, if that would have happened under drywall, I would have been far more sorry than I already am...

Vaughn

 

[upstatemike]

You can get 2" Carlon Flexible or 1", you just can't buy it at home depot. You can get it from Smarthome, Worthington, etc. I ran 4 2" runs. 2" can easily fit in a standard wall. If you can't run the 2", run as big and as many as you can to compensate.

Is it OK to put a 2 inch hole in a 2X4 header? I thought there was a limit to how big a hole you can make before it affects the strength of the board. Something like 1 1/4 inches for a 4 inch wide board?

 

[ctwilliams]

You can get 2" Carlon Flexible or 1", you just can't buy it at home depot. You can get it from Smarthome, Worthington, etc. I ran 4 2" runs. 2" can easily fit in a standard wall. If you can't run the 2", run as big and as many as you can to compensate.

Is it OK to put a 2 inch hole in a 2X4 header? I thought there was a limit to how big a hole you can make before it affects the strength of the board. Something like 1 1/4 inches for a 4 inch wide board?

I used the 2" also, but I had several places where i could run it through voids in the wall that allowed me to go around the headers and into the attic above...

 

[HighTest]

I know that this thread was originally about CQC and it's current price. This then progressed to discussions about HomeSeer and other solutions that can easily add up to more when all the various modules and whatnot are added to the solution.

What's important is that these are discussions about current product that continue to receive support and development from their vendors.

"IF" you are willing to move into the unsupported and discontinued relm, you could try experimenting with a "free" solution such as Motorola Premise 2.1. This used to be a $900.00 solution but support has been discontinued by Motorola and they decided to give it away for free along with their Visual Studio 2005 driver development kit (needs Visual Studio 2005 if you want to develop new devices).

Here's the link to the free download and the "official" info about the system. http://www.premisesystems.com/ They still maintain their forum as a read-only site and additional drivers can be downloaded there. In addition, a Yahoo Groups exists for ongoing enthusiast development and use of Premise. http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PremiseSYSCommunity/ At this group, you can find Insteon drivers, UPnP control, Speech control, Nuvo, Kentwood and others that continue to receive grassroots development. In addition, Premise appears to be working fine with Windows Vista, so while not in development it'll last a little longer even if looking a bit dated.

Granted, in the long run you may need a different solution, but this one can help you try something out free and decide if you want to invest into the current supported products like the excellent CQC solution. I'm seriously looking at CQC, but Premise has been working well with my current setup which includes a Caddx NX-8V2 security panel. I don't see any ELK M1 support in Premise at this time, but perhaps someone is working on a driver?

 

[sic0048]

You can get 2" Carlon Flexible or 1", you just can't buy it at home depot. You can get it from Smarthome, Worthington, etc. I ran 4 2" runs. 2" can easily fit in a standard wall. If you can't run the 2", run as big and as many as you can to compensate.

Is it OK to put a 2 inch hole in a 2X4 header? I thought there was a limit to how big a hole you can make before it affects the strength of the board. Something like 1 1/4 inches for a 4 inch wide board?

As long as it is not a bearing wall, then you are OK. Not sure what is a bearing wall? Then better to be safe then sorry, or get someone that knows to check. Non-bearing walls are simply holding up drywall, windows, and doors, so you can cut as much as you like.