CQC is not cheap!

Yes, but it is very easy for a Homeseer user to add MainLobby to the mix to get that high function touch screen support with reliability. Yes, some additional cost, but with great power and flexibility. No out of the box functionality today like Maestro can provide to Homeseer users, but Maestro is limited in customization and power.

Perhaps. But I'm not totally sure how adding ML to HS makes HS more reliable necessarily. And you are getting closer to CQC's cost as well when you add them both together, plus the extra charges involved in each of them, separate upgrade charges over time, two separate programs to have to integrate, separate system configuration interfaces, and so forth.


It doesn't necessarily make Homeseer more reliable. Homeseer IS reliable. So is MainLobby. You can have MLServer watch over Homeseer and visa versa to make sure all processes and PCs are working the way they are suppose to be, and if not restart / relaunch / send email or whatever, but that really isn't even needed because they both just work. Just like Windows...it's not the OS that is unreliable, it's what people do with them in the wild that CAN make it unreliable. No different than any of the flavors discussed here. A bad driver on a CQC server will surely crash it. Good installations include good drivers on good hardware for CQC to be reliable (and other issues).

The combo of HS, MainLobby and the MLHSPlugin is less than CQC. And does provide pocketpc coverage. Now, if you add up all of the possible drivers / apps from Homeseer and MainLobby of course it will exceed the price of CQC. But, no one has a need to do that. That's proven. My guess is that most "full boat system" will be similar in price to the CQC product. Now, a few might say "if you add this, that and this other thing here, that will be more money" and tecnically be correct. It just doesn't happen that way. Could it - of course. Just doesn't often.
 
BTW I saw someone post a price for Netremote/Girder. It was a tad high.... Netremote Whole Home Pro (This package allows you to have any number of copies of NetRemote running in your home) is $150 and Girder Home Whole Pro (This package allows you to have as many copies of Girder running in your home) is $150. Netremote Whole Home Pro comes with Netremote Designer. Girder 4 Insteon Plugin is $40.

If your like me and only use Girder on your server for HA then that would be down to $99 for Girder Single License.

So even a full blown unlimited use system would only run $340 with the Insteon plugin. The Powerlinc USB plugin comes with G5 which is what I use. So my setup would be $250.

Its not the answer for everyone I am sure.. but for those that want a pretty nice setup and like hands on then by all means take a look at what you can do. I know others on Cocoontech that are using their NR/G5 setup with their Elk.. and many plugins being developed. There is even a Powerhome plugin being written to let them use Netremote as their GUI frontend. Also NR runs on both Windows and PPC. I would dare to say that the PPC implementation is probably the most powerful of any package I have seen. Very robust.. in fact you can design your skin or CCF on Windows and then when your done move it over to the PPC.

John
 

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A bad driver on a CQC server will surely crash it. Good installations include good drivers on good hardware for CQC to be reliable (and other issues).

Actually, no. Our drivers are written in CML or PDL, our own languages. They cannot crash CQC because they can't do anything that would. They can not work as they should to control the device, but they won't crash CQC. At worst one could go into an infinite loop and eat up some CPU until it was unloaded. But that's about the worst it could do. That's a key reason for CQC's stability. Any system where third party code that is unconstrained (i.e. written in a general purpose language outside of the system's control) is loaded directly into a larger program, that's asking for trouble. They can work perfectly in one configuratoin and cause almost completely impossible to figure out bugs in another, such that everyone involved just has to shrug and go back to whatever they were doing.

These types of things, i.e. a fully custom, object oriented, virtual machine based language with graphical IDE, are things that someone just glancing through CQC might not notice, or realize the import of or why that makes it a higher end system or a more robust system.
 
And (cinemar) does provide pocketpc coverage.

No, it doesn't. Here's something that took me all of 30 mins to do, as it just required copy/paste from existing screens. From John's post above, it seems that GR/NR may do this, but everything I read and seen about Cinemar on any forum leads me to believe this is physically impossible without resorting to logmein. That would require a long time to login to logmein, then to connect, then to navigate your screen to the right location on your desktop (i've been using logmein a bit lately to help someone out with non-HA stuff). I know if it took me minutes to pull up this screen, it would be useless as I'd never have the patience to do it.

Plus, no way am I installing yet another app on my server that can only mess with my HA setup. Stuff like that is what makes Steve think that windows-based PCs are unreliable.

ppc_overview.jpg
 
And, Steve hasn't piped in here lately but he's fond of pointing out how different the packages are in their approach, and how you just may not understand how one works. I know that for me, CQC and the helpful user community "clicked" and the others just confounded me. Avoiding that heartache could be worth more than a few hundred ever would.
IVB said:
Stuff like that is what makes Steve think that windows-based PCs are unreliable.
I was trying to stay out of it, but as long as you dragged me in...

Yes, I do believe that different people learn and interact with their tools, environment, etc. differently and you can't just say 1 piece of software is 'the best', even if architecturally it is. Different software just 'fits' people differently, just as a tailored suit fits people differently. That's what Steve is fond of saying :ph34r:

Steve believes that a system with moving parts and is 'open' to outside influences is always going to be inherently more unreliable. As was stated, the O/S itself is not unreliable (the O/S is no different than firmware really). But the fact that you have hard drives that WILL fail (at some point and usually unexpectedly) and the fact that system is more open to the environment, whether it be trojans, malware, or even the user making a config mistake does definitely make the system inherintly less reliable than a closed solid state device. Can a pc to be tweaked and optimized to be super reliable - sure, but I don't think it will catch the reliablity of a solid state panel.

And I have to agree with Dean on the point of rogue drivers. I have seen bad drivers in many different systems, HA or not cause all kinds of damage, but I have never seen a bad CQC driver do harm, and I have seen CQC drivers with issues. But because of the architecture, the core is protected, that's just a fact.

And I'd REALLY love to see points debated on Cocoontech from a technical perspective and based on their core merits, not with marketing agendas. Who cares if a product is cheaper a la carte, or as a bundle? Who says (or cares) the market demands it one way or another? Do I care if the market says black cars are more popular than white ones - that's horse poop, I care about what I want, not what others supposedly want. Stop the marketing and let all vendors simply point out the merits of their product and let the users decide for themselves. Competition is good, thats the only way the end user wins, the products will be forced to keep improving. There is enough room for several good products, let the people pick what they want based on their wants, needs and budget. Yes, I use and prefer CQC but you will never see me stand up and say CQC is best and you, you and you need to use CQC. I will always share my thoughts and why I feel a certain way, but everyone needs to decide on their own what is right for them.

Now, can I have some of that Orville Redenbacher please?
 
I definitly can respect that home automation means different things to different people. I've been involved in HA many years, and like anyone, I've selected the types of HA that I like and haven't worried about the rest. For me, no matter how big my media room grows, I've never much felt it was a place for home automation. There are great $1000 - $2000 remotes out there that can do everything I could imagine in one box. Problem solved.

I can also respect that others like to play in this area with control of A/V equipment via a touchscreen. This is the area CQC plays in and the area that many professional installers play in. Some of these can even control lights and HVAC, but the logic involved is relatively simple. Why do professionals play here? To be honest, its because its easy. CQC does a great job of merging all the AV stuff, it looks impressive to the owner, and it works great with minimal custom programming. As Jerry Seinfeld would say, there is nothing wrong with that.

What I consider a "smarthome" is quite a bit different. I use RFID tags to recognize who is in the house to set the correct temps, control the music, to realize when the cars are home and away, the trash can in or out. (CQC doesn't support an RFID reader, HomeSeer supports two) I use TTS and housewide voice recognition so don't really need many panels because I can control anything with voice. (I don't think CQC even supports voice recognition.) I also can control lights and HVAC, but never touch a panel because motion detectors, bed sensors, field sensors and RFID give the system all it needs to decide what light goes on or off and when. When I get a package, and SMS is sent to me. When I get a phone message, an MP3 of it is e-mailed to me so I can listen to it at work.

You'd never find a system like this in any multi-million dollar house (except for Bill Gates) not because its expensive, but because it takes so much time to get running that no pro in his right mind would ever attempt such an install. I also laugh when HomeSeer announces they have a new system for professionals.

I use HomeSeer because its the only software that can do what I need, but that's not to say its "good" software. Rich and Rick do great, but its always in beta version, and fixing a bug takes the form of: O.K. try it now. How about now. Maybe now. For some it requires a reboot of the PC every 5 hours to keep it working.

So I guess that is why we can live in a world where both HomeSeer and CQC exist, with neither really crossing the path of the other. I'd love a HomeSeer with the reliability of CQC even if it only had half the features of HomeSeer, and I'd be willing to pay $1000's for it, but it ain't going to happen. Unfortunately.
 
I use RFID tags to recognize who is in the house to set the correct temps, control the music, to realize when the cars are home and away, the trash can in or out. (CQC doesn't support an RFID reader, HomeSeer supports two)
All your points are well taken, just one FYI - CQC has a CheaperRFID driver and the mfr is working on networked readers and RSSI capability. Doesn't do the iAutomate stuff because Peter suddenly went AWOL on us, and honestly even if he comes back i've been pretty turned off by the random appearance disappearing trick, and would rather wait a few more months for CheaperRFID to deploy their new stuff than risk another sudden departure.

I know jkmonroe is doing a lot of rfid stuff similar to you - knows when he comes home, uses TTS to bitch about the trash not being taken out yet, etc.
 
(CQC doesn't support an RFID reader, HomeSeer supports two)

Don't mean to pick, but actually there is a CQC driver for the 'Cheaper RFID' stuff... Look here
It may not be as fancy as the iautomate stuff, but it is readily available and supported.

Edit: Wow, I could swear IVB's answer was not there when I started typing, oh well...
 
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