Existing Alarm & Automation Options

[TaterTot]

When my home was built a few years ago, it was pre-wired with an alarm. There are sensors on all the doors and windows on the first floor, along with a number hardwired smoke detectors. It also has a wired motion sensor. There is a "GE Network X" (Interlogix?) panel in the closet and a keypad at the front of the house. The alarm works just fine, but it is not being monitored by anyone at this time (just never had it hooked up).

Due to the multi-level layout of the home, there is absolutely no attic access to run any additional wires for anything in the home (hence why I had the home pre-wired in the first place). I have been looking around to get the alarm monitored by a reputable company and at the same time I have recently gotten interested in the idea of home automation.

I was originally interested in ADT Pulse, and they said they could "take over" my existing equipment and add a cellular connection, a couple of cameras, a thermostat, and a couple light/appliance switches for something like $1,000. Which I though was a little expensive since I already had all the door/windows and motion sensors.

That got me into looking around at other options, but I am not sure where to go from here. I really want my alarm monitored and to have some home automation. My options as I understand it are as follows...

Option 1: Have ADT (or another company) just monitor the basic alarm that is already installed and continue with another home automation option (Home Seer, Vera, etc.). Downside: I lose the ability to have any events/scene that involve any of the doors, windows, or motion sensor or even the smoke detectors. Also, I would not be able to incorporate arming/disarming/tripping the alarm into the events/scenes.

Option 2: Purchase a basic ADT Pulse package with cameras and add on my own compatible thermostat, switches, door locks, etc. Downside: The list of compatible hardware with the Pulse system is very short and, if I understand it correctly, you are forced to use their cameras. Plus, I feel as if I would be very limited with their software/hardware.

Option 3: Go with Option 1, but also buy new additional wireless door and motion sensors for the automation system (but not window sensors since they would probably not be used in a typical event/scene). Downside: I really do not want to have to buy even more equipment. Also, due to cosmetic reasons, I am not sure my wife would go for it.

Is there an Option 4? Can I somehow incorporate my existing alarm setup into some sort of home automation system AND get my alarm monitored through a reputable company? Don’t forget that I need some sort of cellular connection since I do not have a landline...

Any opinions, options, comments, or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Sorry for such a long first post. Thanks in advance for your help!


TLDR: I want to use my existing hardwired alarm with some sort of home automation and have it monitored using a cellular connection since I do not have a landline....
 

 

[picta]

Are you a DIY type of person or you have to to use hired help for your project? How much are you willing to spend on it? "a cellular connection, a couple of cameras, a thermostat, and a couple light/appliance switches" is about right for something like $1,000, assuming everything is of decent quality. The most valuable part of your existing system is the wired sensors, the panel itself is not worth that much, so you could consider replacing it with Elk M1 or HAI panel and you'll get a home automation controller and alarm panel in one package. Both have cellular modules, and can be monitored by many alarm companies. You could later add a wireless receiver and expand your sensors. HAI omnistat zigbee is compatible with both panels, so are zigbee locks. You could also pace and acquire other HA gadgets as you learn about your system and home automation.

 

[TaterTot]

Are you a DIY type of person or you have to to use hired help for your project? How much are you willing to spend on it? "a cellular connection, a couple of cameras, a thermostat, and a couple light/appliance switches" is about right for something like $1,000, assuming everything is of decent quality. The most valuable part of your existing system is the wired sensors, the panel itself is not worth that much, so you could consider replacing it with Elk M1 or HAI panel and you'll get a home automation controller and alarm panel in one package. Both have cellular modules, and can be monitored by many alarm companies. You could later add a wireless receiver and expand your sensors. HAI omnistat zigbee is compatible with both panels, so are zigbee locks. You could also pace and acquire other HA gadgets as you learn about your system and home automation.

 
I am definitely a "DIY person" and I love to this kind of stuff. As far as wiring goes though, I am kind of stuck with what I have. I am really not sure about budget at this point. I am ok with about $1k, but I want to know that it is all good stuff...
 
I know you said that $1k is about right for the equipment, but I just figured that their stuff is probably not the best quality. Plus I kind of hate knowing that I would be stuck to their dismal "compatible equipment" list....
 
Are you saying that the "Elk M1 or HAI panel" can do both the alarm & home monitoring stuff? I guess I need to spend some time research those.... any suggestions on where to start?
 
Would you typical alarm company be able to monitor it with no issue? Or would I have to go through some specialty company?
 
So basically you are saying that there is an Option 4, I just had not found it yet... :rockon:

 

[picta]

Yes, both Elk M1 and HAI Omni are designed to do both home automation and alarm monitoring. Many monitoring companies support these, you'll have to research the ones in your area or check out alarm.com. To start you can use the tutorials on this forum and check out Manufacture section in "What's New". If you are serious about home automation, ditch your existing panel and you'll have a lot of fun.

 

[TaterTot]

You guys will have to be patient with me as  I am learing a little at a time.... so will all my exsting wiring ran for the smoke, door, window, & motion sensors work with both of these new panels (I am assuming it is pretty generic stuff). What about the wiring for the key pad? I know some of these new key pads have a special bus that is needed...
 
Also what sort of wireless home automation works with these 2 panels? Does it just depend on what wireless reciever you buy (I know you mentioned zigbee)... Man I hate being such a noob...

 

[picta]

Hey, no worry, this is what this forum is for. You'll have to be patient as well as there is an overwhelming amount of information to navigate. So if you are ok with an idea of replacing the panel, the next step is to decide which one to get. There are a lot of posts on the forum dedicated to this, just search for Elk and HAI. Your existing sensors should be compatible with either panel. How many conductors do you have going to your keypad? For the additional wireless sensors you can install a wireless receiver to Elk or HAI and it will give you up to 48 zones for security (motion, glass breaks, door contacts, keyfobs etc.). Again, you can see whats available on each manufacturer website. Then if you want additional non-security devices like a thermostat, door lock or lighting, you'll need a respective control module. Lighting is a hot debate topic, there are various technologies available, so you'll have to decide on it for yourself. As an example, consider everything zigbee just to learn the various options. Then you can look at other technologies to make an educated decision. And you can always post your questions on this forum if you get stuck.

 

[signal15]

If you buy the GE NX584 module, there's a plugin that integrates your panel with the Vera.  All of your sensors will show up in Vera as devices, and you can use them in scenes/rules/programming, just like any of Vera's Z-wave sensors.  
 
I use the Elk plugin, and it does the same thing.  Works great.
 
The module is $75 on amazon.  Vera Lite is $189, the plugin is free, and then you'll need a usb->serial adapter.  Not sure which ones work, check the vera site.  They can't cost more than $20-30.  This is by far your cheapest option.  Add a retired android phone/tablet connected to wifi and hook it up to speakers, and now you have high quality TTS voice that can announce anything you want (via Vera Alerts).  The only thing you're missing is relays to control things that aren't meant to be controlled (garage doors).  There are vera plugins for a couple of devices that are just relay boxes.  And then you start adding Z-wave device (switches, locks, etc).  
 
I wouldn't sign up with ADT, they suck, and they are expensive.  I was broken into twice with them.  The first time, no one showed up.  The second time, a rent a cop showed up an hour later, shined his light on the house from his car, and drove away.  Sign up for NextAlarm.  You might need to get the installer code from the people that originally set up the system.  NextAlarm is like $10 a month or so.
 
I wouldn't replace your existing system either.  I have an Elk, and I tried to do everything with it.  The programming/rules are pretty simplistic and limited, and there are a lot of workarounds to get things working how you want.  And many things are not even possible.  The built in speech is limited to just over 500 words, and I think the quality of the voice sucks.  My Elk essentially does nothing for automation now, the Vera does it all using the Elk's sensors as triggers.  I do use the Elk's output relays for garage doors, but as I noted above, there are other options for this.  If I had to do it all over again, I'd just do a regular security system that would interface with the Vera.

 

[TaterTot]

IThe module is $75 on amazon.  Vera Lite is $189, the plugin is free, and then you'll need a usb->serial adapter.  Not sure which ones work, check the vera site.

 
 
My router/switch is on the complete opposite side of the house from where the alarm panel is and as I mentioned earlier there is no way to run any wires anywhere.
 
From briefly looking at the Vera setup, it looks like the Vera lite connection to the router and then would the "GE NX584" would connect to the Vera via a "usb->serial adapter"? Is that is correct?
 
If so, then there is no way that soultion is going to work since the two are no where near each other...
 
As far as ADT is concerned, I also read that their "Z-Wave/Wi-Fi access point" must be "hardwired to the panel" and "connected to your router using CAT-5/6 cable" as well.... If this is the case then that solution will not work either...

 

[picta]

While Vera is a nice entry level controller I would not want to connect it to my alarm system. HAI panel uses encrypted connection while Vera's security is only as good as your wi-fi's network. You could run the HAI panel stand-alone without connecting it to the network, but then you'll loose the ability to use your IP devices as interfaces.

 

[TaterTot]

While Vera is a nice entry level controller I would not want to connect it to my alarm system. HAI panel uses encrypted connection while Vera's security is only as good as your wi-fi's network. You could run the HAI panel stand-alone without connecting it to the network, but then you'll loose the ability to use your IP devices as interfaces.

 
Why would I want/need to run the HAI panel without connecting it to the network? That seems like it would kill the most useful part of the whole setup...

 

[pete_c]

You could also utilize serial and a modem instead of the network. 
 
That said you could also try to use a power line network interface bringing a network connection to the panel.
 
I have a mixture of serial and networked devices connected to the HAI panel. 
 
I have now converted my inwall switches to UPB and have UPB, Z-Wave and X10 serial connections to the HAI panel and do sort a mix and match of technologies.  The panel also has serially connected touchscreens and networked connected touchscreens.  The thermostat is serial and so is the Russound zoned system. Works for me. 
 
Relating to serial you can utilize your old telephone wires maybe for your serial connectivity if they are around.  You might even be able to get some network stuff done with the old legacy wiring.
 
I utilize software and it provides the TTS and the various voice fonts utilized in the house today either from the zoned sound system or from the touchscreens acting as remote sound/TTS devices. 
 
Its really more what you want to do; sounds like primarily you are interested in security; that said go slow and work on that; later some automation; long long term what gives you the best bang for the buck (said what you already have).  There are literally many ways to do this; read on in the forum and you will see most likely some similiar or same scenerio you have or someone else has dealt with. 

 

[TaterTot]

My biggest problem seems to be the wiring issue and the fact that the alarm panel and router/switch is on the complete opposite end of the house from each other...
 
If anything involves adding new wiring OR connecting anything in the panel to my router, then it is not going to work...
 
Hopefully I will figure something out.... :wacko:

 

[picta]

Do you have a wifi point? Then you can simply add ethernet to wifi adapter to communicate with the panel

 

[pete_c]

I helped a neighbor in Florida upgrading her legacy alarm panel to an HAI panel.  The panel was in one bedroom closet.  It originally was wired with 5 zones which were just rooms with multiple sensors.  She did have one telephone wire going to the panel in the center of the house.  The dilemma there was the same with no network connectivity near the panel.
 
She did have one room that she used as her at home office.  That room was not the same room as the alarm panel.  She was using Comcast for her VOIP, Internet and TV access.  There was a cable feed outside that ran into the same room as the alarm closet.
 
I reconnected it as it had been cut and disconnected from the rest of the cable in the house.  I then moved her Comcast router / VOIP box over to the alarm panel area; also redid the electric. Built a kind of mini shelf next to the alarm panel.  I back feed the VOIP out to the old analog telephone line and set her office computer up to utilize wireless and it worked for her and its still working today after some 4-5 years now.
 
The above is just one scenario and shifts the Comcast combo modem/router to another place in the house using existing coaxial cable and takes her desktop PC to wireless.
 
You could also call your ISP provider and tell them to move the connection to a different location and pay them for said move.
 
I am curious if there is any Telephone wires wired to the panel at all?

 

[TaterTot]

Do you have a wifi point? Then you can simply add ethernet to wifi adapter to communicate with the panel

 
Yeah I have pretty good wifi coverage throughout the entire house. I have a DVD player in the same closet as the alarm panel and it streams HD Netflix without a problem...
 
I know there are some "universal" adapters out there, but will they work with most of these alarm panels? if I did the HAI Omni panel -- is there a specific adapter that would work?
 
 

I helped a neighbor in Florida upgrading her legacy alarm panel to an HAI panel.  The panel was in one bedroom closet.  It originally was wired with 5 zones which were just rooms with multiple sensors.  She did have one telephone wire going to the panel in the center of the house.  The dilemma there was the same with no network connectivity near the panel.
 
She did have one room that she used as her at home office.  That room was not the same room as the alarm panel.  She was using Comcast for her VOIP, Internet and TV access.  There was a cable feed outside that ran into the same room as the alarm closet.
 
I reconnected it as it had been cut and disconnected from the rest of the cable in the house.  I then moved her Comcast router / VOIP box over to the alarm panel area; also redid the electric. Built a kind of mini shelf next to the alarm panel.  I back feed the VOIP out to the old analog telephone line and set her office computer up to utilize wireless and it worked for her and its still working today after some 4-5 years now.
 
The above is just one scenario and shifts the Comcast combo modem/router to another place in the house using existing coaxial cable and takes her desktop PC to wireless.
 
You could also call your ISP provider and tell them to move the connection to a different location and pay them for said move.
 
I am curious if there is any Telephone wires wired to the panel at all?

 
Yeah, I have comcast now and have my modem, router, and other stuff all tucked away in another part of the house (in other words, i do not want to move it). The house is wired for telephone in just about every room, so if I had to guess I would say that panel has telephone wires in it (almost 100% sure it does). I just do not have any telephone service hooked up (do not have the need)... I am going to try to take a look at the panel again sometime soon and then I will know for sure - but what difference does that make?
 
I know I have gotten alot of good responses from this topic, but I still feel like I have no idea what direction I want to go in.