Existing Alarm & Automation Options

[pete_c]

Here in the midwest my LV cabling efforts were in sync with my wife's redecorating requests one room at at time.   
 
It did get a bit excessive at times and while I didn't do much of the decorating pieces I would always do the infrastructure piece concurrent with the redecorating pieces.  
 
IE: The wife wanted a new chandelier in our entry point of the house.  While we (mostly her) shopped I ordered and installed a lift for the chandelier; my contribution to said endeavor.  It was more or less like installing a garage door opener in the attic.  While in the attic added lighting to the attic, more flooring and cat walks, LV wires, new HV circuits, a couple of chases, etc.  While in the attic replaced ducting to the bathrooms, new bathroom fans (way better than the contractor installed ones) so forth and so on. 

 

[TaterTot]

I am slowly starting to be able to answer most of my questions thanks to the replies I have gotten here, but I have a question that may be slightly off topic...
 
I have tried to look up info on this, but I have not been sucessful so far....
 
With either the HAI or Elk panel and a few IP cameras, how would you record video? How would you view the videos? Where would the video be stored? I am not talking about hours of video, but just like 5 second clips.
 
i.e.  Lets says camera 1 is pointed at the front door and you had the camera setup to record for 5 secods when the front door was opened --> How would this work with one of these panels? Is it easy to setup? Does the camera have to have its own storage? I have a feeling it involves more $$$ :mellow:

 

[electron]

The panels themselves don't record video.  The touch screen software can be configured to display camera feeds, but the software doesn't offer any DVR functionality either, it's up to you to pick up a DVR which is compatible with the touch screen software, but most of us rely on a 3rd party solution such as Homeseer/CQC to create our own touch screen interface, with the cameras nicely integrated.

 

[TaterTot]

The panels themselves don't record video.  The touch screen software can be configured to display camera feeds, but the software doesn't offer any DVR functionality either, it's up to you to pick up a DVR which is compatible with the touch screen software, but most of us rely on a 3rd party solution such as Homeseer/CQC to create our own touch screen interface, with the cameras nicely integrated.

 
I am not really interested in a DVR, but I would like the ability to capture brief events as I mentioned above. I know I have read about some cameras having SD card slots for storage, so I am not sure how that intergrates into the software for either the Elk or HAI panels.
 
The Homeseer/CQC is really overkill for me right now... Although, I have seen some pretty cool setups using those software packages...
 
I am not sure the point of having cameras if you cannot record anything.... I would just like to be able to see little clips of the last 5 times a door was opened or something like that. It could even be gif images for all I care....
 
What is the simplest way to set that up?

 

[electron]

Unfortunately, you will have to rely on 3rd party software in order to access anything but live data.

 

[TaterTot]

Unfortunately, you will have to rely on 3rd party software in order to access anything but live data.

 
Thanks for the info.... 
 
I am guessing there is no easy or cheap way to do this? This may actually change the direction I am going with my whole setup... (looks like I will be starting over) :unsure:
 
Honestly I am really suprised that their is not someout out there that is packaging all this stuff together in one solution (seucrity/automation hardware & software)...
 
I must be getting tired, because the ADT and Xfinity security stuff is sounding better and better (and actually quite a bit cheaper even considering the monthly $$)
 
 
ETA: Can you even control a pan/tilt camera from either the Elk or HAI panel's software? How does this functionality work?

 

[signal15]

Now that I have had a little more time to absorb some of the options and equipment out there, I have a few additional questions/concerns:

#1: If I go with a HAI panel then I would really like to have a touch screen (OmniTouch 5.7) where my existing keypad is. →  However, it has to work with the wiring that is already there for my old keypad (NetworX Series NX-1300E LED Keypad). It looks like it is a 3 wire setup (Data, COM, POS), but there are 4 wires actually there (only 3 of them being used). Will this setup work or is there another panel that will? What are my options here...
 
#2: I really want the ability to control everything via the internet and my Android phone and have email alerts. → There is no wired ethernet available at the panel, but there is a solid Wifi (N) signal (this issue may be resolved since others have commented that a wired/wireless adapter should work). Is there anything additional I need for this (is a server necessary for email alerts)?

#3: I could really care less about the lighting controls, but I really want to have some of the other type of wireless controls. Like door locks, wireless thermostat, garage door sensors/opener, and maybe 1 or 2 appliance controls (lets assume Zwave since I know they make compatible door locks)  → Since the location of the panel is in the far end of the house (far away from everything that I want wirelessly controlled), am I going to be forced in install lighting control to create a proper network that will extend the length of the house or will I just use repeaters or what are my options here? My wife has already told me that she hates the square (rocker style) light switches, so I would rather go another route...

#4: If we assume I am going to go with HAI, then I know I will need the panel, a cellular connection device, a keypad/touchscreen, a wired to Wifi adapter (see previous posts), and various wireless hardware. → Is there any additional equipment that I am missing here (either vital or things that would be nice to have)? I have read about some Z-Wave interface or controller, but is that needed with the HAI panel? Also, is there anything special needed for the door locks since they run encryption? Are there any special software or cables or anything else that I might need?


I went and checked and I have a NetworX NX-6V2 alarm panel if that makes any difference. And it looks like there is no telephone wiring and the smoke detectors are not even hooked up...

 
All of the requirements you've mentioned can be provided with the Vera and using your existing system.  Yes, you'll need a wireless extender to get ethernet to your alarm panel.  But, a lot of people are just mounting cheap chinese android tablets in the wall and using AuthomationHD to control it all, and it looks way better than the HAI touchscreen (and it's way cheaper).  You can control the system via your Android phone from anywhere in the world using AuthomationHD or HomeBuddy, and you don't even have to poke a hole in your firewall since it just connects to MiCasaVerde's cloud service.  The Vera supports Zwave.   It is WAY more flexible when it comes to programming automation rules than Elk or HAI.  And the price is right at $189.  Some of the stuff you want to do might require writing a couple of lines of LUA code, but the community is very helpful and will probably write it for you.  Plus, some of the most recent plugins are very powerful and remove the requirement to write LUA for some very complex things.
 
At $189 for the Vera Lite, it's worth a shot.  If it doesn't work out, Ebay it.  But at least you'll have an actual list of shortcomings that you can address when looking for something else.  I'm very happy with my Vera, and my brother is happy with his.  If you wait a few months, the Almond+ will hopefully be out, and it may even be a better solution.  It's $99 to get in on the kickstarter for that one right now, and these guys already successfully pulled off the Almond.
 
Get a vera, a wireless extender, and the ethernet board for your alarm panel.  It's gonna be the cheapest solution by far.  If you don't mind potentially having to write LUA to accomplish something, then you'll love it.  I don't particularly like writing it, but it takes about 30 mins to learn and the community helps out a ton. 

 

[TaterTot]

All of the requirements you've mentioned can be provided with the Vera and using your existing system.  Yes, you'll need a wireless extender to get ethernet to your alarm panel.  But, a lot of people are just mounting cheap chinese android tablets in the wall and using AuthomationHD to control it all, and it looks way better than the HAI touchscreen (and it's way cheaper).  You can control the system via your Android phone from anywhere in the world using AuthomationHD or HomeBuddy, and you don't even have to poke a hole in your firewall since it just connects to MiCasaVerde's cloud service.  The Vera supports Zwave.   It is WAY more flexible when it comes to programming automation rules than Elk or HAI.  And the price is right at $189.  Some of the stuff you want to do might require writing a couple of lines of LUA code, but the community is very helpful and will probably write it for you.  Plus, some of the most recent plugins are very powerful and remove the requirement to write LUA for some very complex things.
 
At $189 for the Vera Lite, it's worth a shot.  If it doesn't work out, Ebay it.  But at least you'll have an actual list of shortcomings that you can address when looking for something else.  I'm very happy with my Vera, and my brother is happy with his.  If you wait a few months, the Almond+ will hopefully be out, and it may even be a better solution.  It's $99 to get in on the kickstarter for that one right now, and these guys already successfully pulled off the Almond.
 
Get a vera, a wireless extender, and the ethernet board for your alarm panel.  It's gonna be the cheapest solution by far.  If you don't mind potentially having to write LUA to accomplish something, then you'll love it.  I don't particularly like writing it, but it takes about 30 mins to learn and the community helps out a ton. 

 
The Vera is definietly something that I am still considering... I know I would need to get the GE NX584 module as you mentioned earlier and I would need some sort of cellular connection. However, like I said earlier my smoke dectors are not even wired up which is a little dissappointing. I need to figure out why they are not hooked up, so I hope it is not a limitation of my panel.
 
I really like the idea of using an Android tablet as a panel and I do programming for a living so writing some LUA is not an issue... I am going to spend tomorrow researching Vera a little more.
 
For some reason, I am really hung up on storing video based on events and being able to have those videos easily accessible/organized. If I wanted to see the last 3 people that walked in the front door, I want to be able to do that without too much hassel and going through a bunch of 3rd party programs...

 

[Klooney]

All of the requirements you've mentioned can be provided with the Vera and using your existing system.  Yes, you'll need a wireless extender to get ethernet to your alarm panel.  But, a lot of people are just mounting cheap chinese android tablets in the wall and using AuthomationHD to control it all, and it looks way better than the HAI touchscreen (and it's way cheaper).  You can control the system via your Android phone from anywhere in the world using AuthomationHD or HomeBuddy, and you don't even have to poke a hole in your firewall since it just connects to MiCasaVerde's cloud service.  The Vera supports Zwave.   It is WAY more flexible when it comes to programming automation rules than Elk or HAI.  And the price is right at $189.  Some of the stuff you want to do might require writing a couple of lines of LUA code, but the community is very helpful and will probably write it for you.  Plus, some of the most recent plugins are very powerful and remove the requirement to write LUA for some very complex things.
 
At $189 for the Vera Lite, it's worth a shot.  If it doesn't work out, Ebay it.  But at least you'll have an actual list of shortcomings that you can address when looking for something else.  I'm very happy with my Vera, and my brother is happy with his.  If you wait a few months, the Almond+ will hopefully be out, and it may even be a better solution.  It's $99 to get in on the kickstarter for that one right now, and these guys already successfully pulled off the Almond.
 
Get a vera, a wireless extender, and the ethernet board for your alarm panel.  It's gonna be the cheapest solution by far.  If you don't mind potentially having to write LUA to accomplish something, then you'll love it.  I don't particularly like writing it, but it takes about 30 mins to learn and the community helps out a ton. 

 
NVM: Disregard post.

 

[potts.mike]

Zoneminder is free and can record on motion. You'll need a pc running though and I don't think you can tell it to record on an event in the alarm panel

 

[electron]

There is no way around using a 3rd party solution.  I'm actually working on a list of all the CCTV software solutions on the market, still have a lot more to add, but many of them can create static snapshots when motion is detected, so in theory, you could host these snapshot on an internal webserver, and have the ELK/HAI software point to it.

 

[TaterTot]

There is no way around using a 3rd party solution.  I'm actually working on a list of all the CCTV software solutions on the market, still have a lot more to add, but many of them can create static snapshots when motion is detected, so in theory, you could host these snapshot on an internal webserver, and have the ELK/HAI software point to it.

 
Thanks for the link. I guess I will have to be ok with the 3rd party solution, I just hope I can find something like you mentioned that integrates pretty seamlessly...
 
What got the whole video thing all started for me is the fact that my father-in-law has the Pulse setup and showed me the video clips from the last 2-3 times his door was opened and I was just in awe of how cool that was.... Then I started researching different systems and it has all just kind of snowballed on me (which is how I ended up here)...  I was just trying to replicate that functionality without having to go through ADT or Comcast...
 
Ok I feel like I have worn that topic out, so lets get back on track.... :horse:
 
As it stands right now, I am really considering going with HAI and possibly adding HomeSeer/CQC in the future if I feel like it is necessary OR adding a cellular connection and a Vera controller to my existing setup and playing around with that until I get tired of it or feel like I need more functionality. The problem with the latter is that my smoke detectors are not hooked up and that bothers me a little (hopefully not a limitation of my panel). All the wiring is there and there is a port for smoke detectors - so I may have to start a new thread to figure out that issue...

 

[electron]

That's the thing, your father-in-law went with a very basic panel which relies on a hosted/subscription service, which works around some of the limitations.  I personally rely on e-mail notifications with a snapshot of what's going on whenever there is motion, and the touch screens to check out the live situation.
 
Logitech offers a series of IP HD security cameras (Logitech Alert) which can act as a DVR, and in combination with the subscription based service, can do everything you want to do, but it won't integrate with your HAI/ELK panel (not sure if there is a point).

 

[picta]

Since you are considering HAI, it may be worth it to check out their video recording solution: http://www.homeauto.com/Products/Surveillance/SurveillanceOverview.asp. It's only analog cameras though. You can also use IP cameras with OP but you'll need your own storage.

 

[sic0048]

Thanks for the info.... 
 
I must be getting tired, because the ADT and Xfinity security stuff is sounding better and better (and actually quite a bit cheaper even considering the monthly $$)

 
 
Just keep in mind that while most of those companies will set up a system for little $$ up front, it is the monthly fees and contracts that kill you.  If you are paying $50 for service from ADT and can get the same service from a good independent provider for $10 a month, you are spending nearly $500 a year too much with ADT.  That adds up quick!  Nearly $1000 over two years, $1500 over three years, etc, etc, etc.  Plus, you give up all control and flexibility with a system like that.  If you have DIY abilities, while it may cost a little more upfront, the ongoing costs are dramatically less and the system is as flexible as you want it to be.
 
Just a friendly reminder not to loose hope when looking into the DIY solution.