General questions on new home automation setup

D

dzirkelb

Member
I have just begun the research of home automation, and I am getting very overwhelmed. I'll basically explain what I am looking for, and then ask some questions (please dont' grill me)

I am looking to mainly start off with simple things like setting a schedule for lights, turn on some sort of music player in my bathroom in the morning at a certain time, turn off all the lights in the house with one command, make sure all lights are turned off at a certain time (after leaving work), and control my heating and air.

So, here is sort of specifically what I want to do:

-Dim the lights in my basement by command of Watch Movie or something along those lines. If possible, change my TV's input, turn stereo to DVD, turn DVD on, and turn on some sort of rope lighting on the floor (assuming they would just be plugged into a wall outlet, not sure though, haven't researched enough)
-At 7:30am m-f, all lights turn off, all appliances turn off (minus fridge), garage door closes, and set thermostat to a certain degree
-Something I have been toying with as an idea...at 6:50am, garage door opens, car starts to warm up

I think that is a very good place to start. For right now, though, I would just like to start with the lighting and work my way up from there to become obsessed with my home :)

I have found a couple companies out there, X10, smarthome, etc that offers this stuff...they all seem to offer it. However, I am new to all of this, so I would like some help with someone guiding me to the best solution due to the following:

-I will have my own cpu running windows 7 ulitmate 64, or, any operating system needed. I will be able to install anything on that cpu that is required.
-I am an IT Director with heavy experience in programming (mainly database stuff)
-I would like to have my home "talk" to me, I can think of many ways to accomplish this
-I would like to be able to talk to my home
-I would like to be able for the home to figure out which room I am in
-I would like to be able to control the home via pc, remote, or buttons of some sort I can place in each room, bascially, somethign I dont' have to carry around with me
-Due to the wifey, this has to be on the cheap end to start with...I'd say I'd like to start out by spending around 200 dollars for just testing purposes, and then build from there.
-Must be able to use existing power wiring in hours, and / or wireless

So, now come the questions:

1) Is the CPU ok? Do I need a different OS? I guess that is based on other things like what program used
2) Is it possible to have wireless / ethernet powered microphones / speakers for a cheap price? I could plug them into a wall outlet and use the ethernet over power. I simply can't run cables throughout my entire house, 3 stories (upstairs, main floor, basement) would just be too much work. This is a big aspect for me. I can run the speakers out through a receiver if need be, but would rather send it out from my computer...but I don't think that is a big deal.
3) If I can find the wireless or ethernet over power speakers / microphones, how reliable are they? I would set them up so the person talking would be fairly close to the microphone. I do understand speech recognition isn't the best, especially with background noise and positioning to the mic. Would I be better off getting some sort of system that takes commands through the phone? I found one of those out there, but cant' remember off the top of my head. I would prefer microphones / speakers, but if this is better, then I would consider it.
4) To dim lights, I am thinking all I would need for hardware is some sort of connection to the physical switch that controls my lights, aka, I have 5 recessed lights controled by one switch...if I tell the software to dim the basement lights (those recessed lights), then it would adjust all of them based on teh switch, right? That is what I am wanting if possible.
5) For hardware, what would I need for lights in the ceiling / control devices via outlet? And, for heating / cooling and garage door?
6) Minus speech recognition, how would I send commands throught my entire house without having to carry a RF remote around?
7) With my background in IT and programming (decent at home electronics also), what would you recommend for what I want to accomplish above? If I can find the command line to turn something on and off / dim a light, then I can set up the macros myself or program them myself; however, I do not know what command is sent to turn off a light, or dim a light, etc. Is there a site that can show this information by chance? If so, then I can program everything myself. If not, then what type of software would be best for me? Keep in mind I would want speech automation (eventually) and the ability to control via PC / remote control / any sort of switches.

I know I have a lot of questions, but any information on what to start with is appreciated. Basically, once I know for sure how this all works, what hardware is needed, and any sort of programming used (if I can run a command myself through command line or anything along those lines, that would be awesome), then i can start a lot of the rest of the research.

Oh, does Microsoft create any sort of Speech Recognition? I have a TechNet subscription and can download for free for testint before I buy anything.

Oh, if you provide a link to another site, then please tell me what it is in regards to and thanks a lot guys!
 
dzirkelb said:
I have come across this site: http://www.james.lipsit.com/home.htm and it looks like a lot of what he shows on his site is what I am looking for, but I am not ready to go that in depth just yet.
Click to expand...

Welcome and you've probably come to the right place. A PC is fine for what you are doing.

Here is where I would start, because there are a few things to think about. First, how to get info into the system. Most full home automation systems gather information from motion sensors, temp sensors, door sensors, through some type of security system. A PC is not a great device for hardware inputs, so many people use a security system as a front-end. Here the choice is an ELK M1 or HAI Omni Pro II, or or one of the lower Omnis. With either of these systems you can do some basic automation, control lights, control music, etc. I recommend you start here and grow from there.

On the choice of lighting control, skip X-10 (outdated) and look at either UPB or Z-Wave. UPB transmits over the powerline, whereby Z-Wave is a radio protocol. ELK and HAI can both "talk" where these protocols and MANY more.

After you complete these systems which are your ears and security, you can expand more. Both ELK and HAI offer "remote" web based access to their systems, but at this stage many use automation software, two of which being HomeSeer and Charmed Quark. These run on a PC and both will communicate with either an ELK or HAI. Now you have some "brains" controlling the hardware.

If you wanted, you could start with a PC based system like HomeSeer or Charmed Quark, but the problem becomes, you have the "brains" but are rather limited on hardware ears and eyes. A PC can certainly control either UPB lighting or Z-Wave, but where you may fall short with the "ears" and "eyes" of gathering info to act on. Still many here never use a home control panel, and are still happy.

So, back to the beginning, I first would decide if you want a security system, and if you want that type of input from such a system to start. If so, start there then move to the PC afterwards. If you don't care about that, you could start with a PC system first, but keep in mind you may want to add a panel later. Other advise would be to start small, but always accommodate expansion. The worse thing you can do is buy a system that can just do what you want now, because when you grow, you'll need to rip it out for a bigger one. Upgrading to a bigger one early on is MUCH cheaper than upgrading later.

And last, ask lots of questions. People on this board are great, and while you will find LOTS of different opinions, most people will do their best to help.

One other thing to add since you mentioned voice recognition. For now I would skip that part. Although its possible, the home like you see on the Jetsons that responds with voice is not possible with todays technology. While voice recognition using a mike up close works pretty well, when you attempt to use is in an open room, it really falls short. Windows includes voice recognition if you want to try it, but don't get your hopes up in it working in a home environment unless you are very close to the mike. I've spent lots of money, and eventually just gave up because the technology today can't do what I wanted.
 
I currently have a home security system in the house; however, I do not know the model off hand (just purchased the house a few months ago). So, I do not know if I can incorporate the sensors of that into my automation.

I think I would like to keep this PC based for a couple reasons...please correct me if I'm wrong:
-I can manually program events (maybe)
-If I can manually program events, then i can create my own web portal (I have that knowledge to do myself)..but again, that is all dependant on if I can somehow figure out the coding to physically send the command. I am hoping I can do this via command line.
-I would like to keep costs down. I already have the CPU, so I do not want to purchase any other expensive hardware if I can avoid it

So, going the PC route, I think I want to start with just controlling one light switch for my testing. I will want to make this lightswitch dim, turn off, turn on via commands from remote, computer itself, voice, and motion. For a remote, I have a logitech harmony, so I think I can program the events through there, but am not sure. For voice, i will need a microphone that is not hard wired into my PC (wirelss or through ethernet through power), and motion which would also have to be wireless or powered through ethernet.

I think i will start with that. If I can accomplish all of those goals on one light switch, then I am confident I can do all of the rest with purchasing the right hardware for the right situation, and setting up macros.

So, should I buy a pre-built piece of software (I would actually LOVE to know if anyone knows how to manually trigger an event through a computer itself opposed to a 3rd party software)...if so, which one will work with motion, remote, and voice?

And, is there hardware for microphone / motion sensor that will work with a computer wirelessly or via power over ethernet?
 
Take HA a little bit at a time.

You show an interest in using a PC to control your lighting. X-10 powerline has been around a very long time. I started to play with it around the late 1970's.

It has its problems BUT you can buy a "throw away" controller and a couple of throw away light switches for next to nothing. Play with it while you read about the new powerline technologies out there.

Do an eval on these different poweline technologies and what you want and how much you are willing to pay to utilze said technology say to automate just your lighting...

Relating to HA software today read thru the threads on this forum, install some trials and "freeware" applications and see what you like....

I believe you can do VR today with a wireless microphone both propietary and with Bluetooth. You can also do motion sensing wirelessly if you choose.
 
Does charmed quark support speech automation? i didn't really find it on the website. And, any idea on how much it costs? I think I will have to buy a third party software, will make things just that much easier.

This program sounds like it is promissing to me...just need to know if it allows speech automation and how much it costs.
 
Like was said before for lighting look at z-wave if you want wireless or upb if you want to use the powerlines to talk to the switch. Then you will need a USB or serial adapter that bridges the pc to the lighting network. I believe both zwave and upb have software that you can trigger the lights from but a package like CQC will give you more control and you'll be able to interface other systems with the lighting in the future.
 
petec said:
Take HA a little bit at a time.

You show an interest in using a PC to control your lighting. X-10 powerline has been around a very long time. I started to play with it around the late 1970's.

It has its problems BUT you can buy a "throw away" controller and a couple of throw away light switches for next to nothing. Play with it while you read about the new powerline technologies out there.

Do an eval on these different poweline technologies and what you want and how much you are willing to pay to utilze said technology say to automate just your lighting...

Relating to HA software today read thru the threads on this forum, install some trials and "freeware" applications and see what you like....

I believe you can do VR today with a wireless microphone both propietary and with Bluetooth. You can also do motion sensing wirelessly if you choose.
Click to expand...

I think that is a good idea. So, I should go to x10's website and buy a controller there...i did see they are very cheap. I install said controller, and then download a trial software program like Charmed Quark. Then, I start playing around, starting with the simplest of commands and working my way up.

I like that idea :)

I think what I'll do is exactly that, and then come back here with my questions. I think I have a good base on where to start and thanks guys for all of your help :(
 
potts.mike said:
Like was said before for lighting look at z-wave if you want wireless or upb if you want to use the powerlines to talk to the switch. Then you will need a USB or serial adapter that bridges the pc to the lighting network. I believe both zwave and upb have software that you can trigger the lights from but a package like CQC will give you more control and you'll be able to interface other systems with the lighting in the future.
Click to expand...

What do you mean i will need a usb or serial adapter that bridges the PC to the lighting network? What would the computer hook up to via usb or serial? I was under the assumption (probably incorrectly), that when using a PC, it sort of scans the network for changes. Meaning, when I install a new wireless device, be it a microphone, light switch, or power outlet, it sort of detects that device. I am guessing it would assign an IP address to that device also, but I may be wrong. Then, it talks to that device through IP.

I may be way off on this, but is that how it would work? If so, what would I need a serial / usb for and what would it connect to from the computer? Please excuse my ignorance :)
 
X10 uses a poweline inteface. There are a few left. The cheapest is the CM11A and is still available. This plugs into the wall and your software will send commands to the controller to the poweline and then to the switches or lamp/applicance modules. I would recommend downloading a free trial of HomeSeer from here and give it a try as well. It works just fine with X10, Z-Wave, Insteon, UPB, etc all at the same time. It also offers text to speech as well as voice control out of the box.

http://www.homeseer.com/pub/setuphs2_4_0_1.exe
 
dzirkelb, first let me sat welcom to CT. You have come to the right place.

As Ano said a PC may not be the best soloution for the whole project because their is limited inputs. You need something to interface to the hardware. Which around here seems to be a Elk MG1 or Hai Omni (my choice was a MG1) But you can connect to these devices from your PC which would be the master control and control events and take actions based on input changes almog with have a web driven input screen or touch screens to be displayed on other machines/devices. Software people use around here is CQC, HomeSeer, J9Automation Engine, Power Home, Premise, and a few others.

One form of input people like around here is their Smartphone/iPhone/iTouch, or other pocket pc type device. Which the software running on your HA Server will need to support. most have 30 day trials, so once you start getting information and hardware give them a shot.

Now for starting out at $200. That might be a problem unless you are buying hardware on ebay or start on the cheap with X10 that you might not (most likely wont) stick with in the future. Other hardwae comes at a price but is more reliable. Check out automatedoutlet.com they are a favorite vendor around here. along with a few others, check out http://www.cocoontech.com/forums/index.php?showforum=59

Open air Mics/VR is some times hard because of household conditions and triggering off common words. Look around here I remember a few threads about it.
 
dzirkelb said:
I am guessing it would assign an IP address to that device also, but I may be wrong. Then, it talks to that device through IP.

I may be way off on this, but is that how it would work? If so, what would I need a serial / usb for and what would it connect to from the computer? Please excuse my ignorance :)
Click to expand...

Unfortunately this is not the case for most HA applications, they are not IP/TCP baised. Im sure we all wish they were.
 
petec said:
Take HA a little bit at a time.

You show an interest in using a PC to control your lighting. X-10 powerline has been around a very long time. I started to play with it around the late 1970's.

It has its problems BUT you can buy a "throw away" controller and a couple of throw away light switches for next to nothing. Play with it while you read about the new powerline technologies out there.

Do an eval on these different poweline technologies and what you want and how much you are willing to pay to utilze said technology say to automate just your lighting...

Relating to HA software today read thru the threads on this forum, install some trials and "freeware" applications and see what you like....

I believe you can do VR today with a wireless microphone both propietary and with Bluetooth. You can also do motion sensing wirelessly if you choose.
Click to expand...

mustangcoupe said:
dzirkelb, first let me sat welcom to CT. You have come to the right place.

As Ano said a PC may not be the best soloution for the whole project because their is limited inputs. You need something to interface to the hardware. Which around here seems to be a Elk MG1 or Hai Omni (my choice was a MG1) But you can connect to these devices from your PC which would be the master control and control events and take actions based on input changes almog with have a web driven input screen or touch screens to be displayed on other machines/devices. Software people use around here is CQC, HomeSeer, J9Automation Engine, Power Home, Premise, and a few others.

One form of input people like around here is their Smartphone/iPhone/iTouch, or other pocket pc type device. Which the software running on your HA Server will need to support. most have 30 day trials, so once you start getting information and hardware give them a shot.

Now for starting out at $200. That might be a problem unless you are buying hardware on ebay or start on the cheap with X10 that you might not (most likely wont) stick with in the future. Other hardwae comes at a price but is more reliable. Check out automatedoutlet.com they are a favorite vendor around here. along with a few others, check out http://www.cocoontech.com/forums/index.php?showforum=59

Open air Mics/VR is some times hard because of household conditions and triggering off common words. Look around here I remember a few threads about it.
Click to expand...

I must not be understanding correctly how this technology works. Is there a quick overview somewhere I can read that describes it? From my perspective, I would think the cpu software would talk to everything through the power lines or through wireless, and the need for one large input device wouldn't be necessary.

When you talk about CPU input ports, why exactly would you need them.? When you install a device anywhere in the home, do you need to install a device on the computer also for each device installed? Or, can you make it talk through the power / wireless of your home network?

I am definately going to start with the x10 since they are so cheap for my testing...then, I'll go from there
 
the network that the lighting talks on is not a computer network its a different technology altogether so you need an adapter to bridge the the computer(IP) network to the lighting network( which for x-10 runs through the power lines of the house. I would ask on the charmed quark forums about the VR and x-10. I believe in the last few months there was a change in the x-10 support.

http://charmedquark.com/vb_forum/index.php
 
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