GFI and X-10

[alpalmer]

I have an outside outlet on a switched circuit. The circuit is also controlled by a GFI. I tried to replace the switch with an X-10 switch and the GFI does not want to reset. The X-10 required a neutral wire and that is what the GFI does not like. It is an old GFI - 16 years old. Might that be the problem? Any way I can make this work?

Al Palmer

 

[kd5crs]

It should work, although once you solve this problem you may run into a signal strength problem. My GFCIs absorb X-10 signals.

If the GFCI is not bad (and they do go bad, eventually), then it would indicate you have a connection between neutral and ground somewhere. My house had that at the box due to several years of previous weird-owner wiring.

So, even if you get the GFCI working, you may not be happy with the reliability of that switch.

Brian

 

[ano]

I have an outside outlet on a switched circuit. The circuit is also controlled by a GFI. I tried to replace the switch with an X-10 switch and the GFI does not want to reset. The X-10 required a neutral wire and that is what the GFI does not like. It is an old GFI - 16 years old. Might that be the problem? Any way I can make this work?

Al Palmer

I it was me, I'd replace the GFI. It's probably not "bad" but older ones weren't as immune to false alarms. If it still trips, get a new X-10 device. Again it's probably not "bad" but some X-10 devices aren't built as good as they should be.

 

[alpalmer]

Thanks for the reply. I was curious about your observation that a connection between neutral and ground somewhere had caused a problem. Since all of the neutrals and grounds in the house are connected to a common buss at the panel, why wouldn't that always be a problem? There is much about this that I do not know.

It should work, although once you solve this problem you may run into a signal strength problem. My GFCIs absorb X-10 signals.

If the GFCI is not bad (and they do go bad, eventually), then it would indicate you have a connection between neutral and ground somewhere. My house had that at the box due to several years of previous weird-owner wiring.

So, even if you get the GFCI working, you may not be happy with the reliability of that switch.

Brian

 

[alpalmer]

I have an outside outlet on a switched circuit. The circuit is also controlled by a GFI. I tried to replace the switch with an X-10 switch and the GFI does not want to reset. The X-10 required a neutral wire and that is what the GFI does not like. It is an old GFI - 16 years old. Might that be the problem? Any way I can make this work?

Al Palmer

I it was me, I'd replace the GFI. It's probably not "bad" but older ones weren't as immune to false alarms. If it still trips, get a new X-10 device. Again it's probably not "bad" but some X-10 devices aren't built as good as they should be.

The X-10 is new but I understand could still be a problem. I may replace the GFI. It is quite sensitive. It controls the outlet that we use to power outside Christmas lights. If it gets the least bit damp outside it trips and turns off the lights. There is one other solution but I dare not write it publicly.

 

[kd5crs]

Thanks for the reply. I was curious about your observation that a connection between neutral and ground somewhere had caused a problem. Since all of the neutrals and grounds in the house are connected to a common buss at the panel, why wouldn't that always be a problem? There is much about this that I do not know.

This is where I have to add the "I am not an electrician, do not listen to me" disclaimer.

It's because the ground does not complete the circuit and should not be carrying a current. If it is completing a circuit somewhere, then the GFCI is doing its correct function by tripping. My house had that due to a bad wiring addition, which I took one look at and called an electrician. That was some messed up wiring, let me tell you.

With the X10 switch, the problem may have been masked because nothing at that location was drawing a current through the neutral wire before (when it was a dumb switch).

So, to sum up, if replacing the GFI does not work and the new one continues to trip, it should be electrician time.

Hope that helps.

Brian

 

[drozwood90]

I had an outside light on a flag...plugged into an X10 and GFCI.

Something (ice / tree branch / squirrel) fell on the light bulb and broke it. I found it when I got home from work...I couldn't figure out what the sizzling sound was. When I looked at the snow melted all around the bulb area, I could see the glass broke and a pool of water INSIDE the bulb making the sound.

The GFCI never kicked!! Apparently it wasn't drawing enough current to trip my breaker either (I tested the breaker and the breaker was working...).

Out went that one!

--Dan

 

[mdesmarais]

Um, if the water is INSIDE the bulb, then there is no ground fault (only hot and neutral in there). . . an arc fault interrupter might have triggered though. If the water was in the bulb and connecting it to the grounded fixture you would get a trip...

 

[alpalmer]

Um, if the water is INSIDE the bulb, then there is no ground fault (only hot and neutral in there). . . an arc fault interrupter might have triggered though. If the water was in the bulb and connecting it to the grounded fixture you would get a trip...

It isn't water inside the bulb. The problem has been moisture in the connections between the light strings and the extention cords. Have tried all kinds of ways over the years to seal those connections but nothing has worked. A little rain or even mist and the GFCI trips and the lights go out until the sun shines for a few hours. Frustrating to say the least.

 

[drozwood90]

Um, if the water is INSIDE the bulb, then there is no ground fault (only hot and neutral in there). . . an arc fault interrupter might have triggered though. If the water was in the bulb and connecting it to the grounded fixture you would get a trip...

Right on...didn't think of that one...no ground fault...so no tripping...

Just sizzle in my yard! lol

Well, at least I got to use the wire from it for my "Cheap 2 prong UPB Appliance Module to UPB Relay" convert circuit (it's the green wire you see in a few of the pictures).

--Dan