Hardwired Lighting System Using Cat5
- Thread starter Sacedog
- Start date
TonyStewart
Active Member
felixrosbergen
Senior Member
I can easilly host a GotoMeeting using my company's account. This allows all to see you computer screen and has voice conference included.
Weekdays are no good for me...unless it's next monday which is a holiday for me.
Weekdays are no good for me...unless it's next monday which is a holiday for me.
felixrosbergen
Senior Member
For those interested I've created a spreadsheet that helps me plan my ALC install. It takes an invertory of all the light switches in the house and then has fields for the node ID and termination point ID.
Send me a PM and i'll e-mail it to you.
Send me a PM and i'll e-mail it to you.
Steve
Senior Member
One thing that I am really struggling with is a dimmer vs a relay. These days when a fixture may be a dimmed load or a fluorescent it is just so nice to have the ability as in UPB to simply put 1 switch in and configure it for either load type. There has been at least 1 occasion when I have changed the type of load but yet did not have to change the switch. If the ALC switches could be configured that way, the same as UPB or JetStream, or probably others, it would make it a so much better choice.
It seems that one occaision is not worth the complication of adding that feature. On the plus side, with ALC, when you change out the switch, you configure it with the same address as the old switch, and you are done! EDT and other switches with dynamic addressing require more work.
--Bob
felixrosbergen
Senior Member
Considering the dimmers and relays are about the same price they only need for a relay is fluorecent lighting and things like fans.
I actually don't know why TS used relay's in his staircase example.
I actually don't know why TS used relay's in his staircase example.
TonyStewart
Active Member
Many jurisdictions will not allow dimmers in stairwells. The thought is that you need the max amount of light to go down a flight of stairs. There have also been some lawsuits related to falling down stairs that were not well lit.
Many lighting loads go beyond the 600 watt maximum for a dimmer, so a 15 amp relay is required (chandeliers, rooms with lots of can lights), outdoor lighting etc. There is a 900 watt ALC dimmer (actually rated at 1000 watts), but it must be installed into a single gang box.
No manufacturer's dimmer (ALC, UPB, Zigbee, or analog) works well with compact flourescants. The trickle current that all dimmers allow through let's the CF have a faint glow when turned fully off. And............. Some brands of CF do not turn off at all when dimmed to zero. This is a known problem that can be fixed by mixing at least one incandescant load with the CF load. However, who wants to mix CF and Incandescants on the same load.
Good news for dimmers is that, recent studies have shown that there is a pronounced energy savings when you dim loads. The savings equals or surpasses that of compact flourescants in some cases. So dimmers are a good choice here.
TS
TonyStewart
Active Member
Evenings would be the best. Electron offerred an idea that he and I are working on that may allow live video and chat at same time. However, chats are harder on my end because I need two people to host the session. Meaning that another of my staff would have to work each session in the evenings. So, a live video with a conference phone call for questions is easier for me.
Will GotoMeeting support this as described?
TS
felixrosbergen
Senior Member
GotoMeeting will not do Live Video very well, but if you're just presenting slides this woudl work just fine. It has a conference number to call into or you can use PC headset/mic. There some chat window as well.
Tony: When you control ALC from an ELK can the ELK be aware of the current status of each light and can you use rules based on that? I understand ELK can send on/Off/Bringht/Dim commands to the light, but i would like to to take certain actions when switches are locally turned on.
For exampole: IF bathroom light (ALC dimmer) is on for 5 minutes then turn fan on (ALC relay) and run untill 5 minutes after light is off.
The ELK M1XSP documentation only seems to desribe how the ELK can control the lights (using outputs) but not the other way.
Tony: When you control ALC from an ELK can the ELK be aware of the current status of each light and can you use rules based on that? I understand ELK can send on/Off/Bringht/Dim commands to the light, but i would like to to take certain actions when switches are locally turned on.
For exampole: IF bathroom light (ALC dimmer) is on for 5 minutes then turn fan on (ALC relay) and run untill 5 minutes after light is off.
The ELK M1XSP documentation only seems to desribe how the ELK can control the lights (using outputs) but not the other way.
charliebarns
Active Member
Hey tony can you explain how one would go about this? The WAF seems to be a deal breaker on the OnQ Scene switches. If I were to be able to integrate a different scene switch I think I'd be over the hurdle. From the WAF point of view the OnQ Scene switches look cheap and antiquated. I'm using an Omni Pro II, how would I go about using a litetouch scene switch. Or can you provide a few manufacturers whose scene switch will work with the ALC system?
regards,
CB
I talked to Tony about this and the net was that any switch that provides a contact closure would work through Elk (I assume the same for Omni Pro). The downside was, that Elk, etc. Wouldn't register a contact closure under a certain number of milliseconds - which tends to be longer than people expect for a scene switch.
TonyStewart
Active Member
Broconne's comment (next one in this thread) was exactly correct. Here is how a contact closure scene switch from any manufacturer works with any automation panel that is also setup to do security (like the M1 or Omni)
Security zones are set up to require a zone violation of a fairly long duration. This is so that brief power blips don't set the alarm off when armed (and is not a setting you can change). This is called loop response time. When you use a contact closure as a scene switch input, the user pressing the button must press it for at about a half second before the panel registers the zone violation. While this does not sound like much, it is a longer time period than the "bump" press that many users want to use.
So, they or you may press the button briefly and the zone may not register the press.
Outside of that, the Litetouch scene switch is a special order item which is not on our site.
TS
beelzerob
Senior Member
Somehow this topic took a turn and I missed it....
The problem, as stated, is that the 4-button aux switch is overall deplored and has to have its own gang box, right? I agree with all that.
Then it was stated that you could use any "competitors" scene switch, so long as it was the contact closure type.
Did I miss somewhere that it was required to use an Elk to make all this work?
I guess the other thing I'm missing is how a scene switch (typically 1 button) can be used in place of the 4-button aux panel, which uses 2 buttons per light (one for up, one for down).
Or maybe I should just crawl back into my hole.....
On a brighter note, I've declared this weekend that I'm going to attempt to run our first set of switches. Tony, I see from the diagrams and what you said that in order to find out which switch really has the hot coming in (and which just runs to the light), you disconnect the wires and then see which one is still hot. Of course, that means turning the power back on and checking live disconnected wires. I have one of those little voltage sensors, so I won't be sticking my fingers in there, but I just wanted to confirm that that is what you meant, as it seems a little on the risky side.
The problem, as stated, is that the 4-button aux switch is overall deplored and has to have its own gang box, right? I agree with all that.
Then it was stated that you could use any "competitors" scene switch, so long as it was the contact closure type.
Did I miss somewhere that it was required to use an Elk to make all this work?
I guess the other thing I'm missing is how a scene switch (typically 1 button) can be used in place of the 4-button aux panel, which uses 2 buttons per light (one for up, one for down).
Or maybe I should just crawl back into my hole.....
On a brighter note, I've declared this weekend that I'm going to attempt to run our first set of switches. Tony, I see from the diagrams and what you said that in order to find out which switch really has the hot coming in (and which just runs to the light), you disconnect the wires and then see which one is still hot. Of course, that means turning the power back on and checking live disconnected wires. I have one of those little voltage sensors, so I won't be sticking my fingers in there, but I just wanted to confirm that that is what you meant, as it seems a little on the risky side.
charliebarns
Active Member
Thanks tony I think I understand a bit better. You basically use the brains of the Elk or Omni to detect a contact closure one any scene switch that is of a contact closure type. the problem being instead of pressing the button momentarily you would have to hold the button for a little longer in order for the system to register the closure. Do you have a link to the Litetouch scene switch that can be special ordered?
CB
