Hardwired Lighting System Using Cat5

[beelzerob]

So what is the verdict on the unused LV wires? Cut the stripped part of, individually wrap then and then wrap them together and stick then 'on top of the box' behind the sheetrock with the used wires?

*shrug* Sure! That would certainly take care of it. Honestly, if you cut the end, I'd just imagine you'd be safe wrapping all of them together. Maybe take a little care to offset them a little when taping.

 

[Sacedog]

I actually have the ELK<> ALC interface running without it's associated power supply. It seems to get it's power from the ELK databus hub. I was a bit surprised when the lights came on without the barrel connector in.

So what is the verdict on the unused LV wires? Cut the stripped part of, individually wrap then and then wrap them together and stick then 'on top of the box' behind the sheetrock with the used wires?

Well, that's cool...one less wall wart is always welcome.

What about the Lighting Expansion Module...are you using one of those? If so, what wall wart do you have plugged into it? It too has a barrel connector on it marked 12V.

 

[felixrosbergen]

The ELK interface is the one that came with the 12v wall wart....but doesnt appear to need it. The expansion module didn't come with one but indeed has a connection...it's a bit confusing...

I have the expansion module, distro modules and normal hub sitting here...but not installed yet....so many automation things to do...so little time...i can really see how getting this done by a pro who needs to be paid by the hour can get really expensive fast.

Got mu 2nd and 3rd switch online tonight...no problems whatsoever....one or 2 more standalone switches...then it's on to the 3 and 4 ways...

 

[TonyStewart]

Tony, what is the size of the 12v wall warts for both the Elk module, and the expansion module (1A, 1.5A, etc.)? I have a ton of wall warts that got mixed up when I moved, and am not sure which ones to use for these modules.

Elk silk screens the required voltages onto their circuit boards. And in the case of DC supplies, they even silk screen whether the center pin is positive or negative.

But they do not put the amperages.

The Elk-m1 board uses a 16 volts AC 40 VoltAmp supply. I suggest staying with Elk for this as their supply has short circuit protection and a status LED. It's part number is Elk-TRG1640.

Most of the other interfaces can get their power from the main board supply. However the M1-XEP Ethernet interface has it's own supply.
It is a 12VDC, Center pin Positive. The XEP manual says it uses 300MA.

Hope this helps.

TS

Good information, but I was actually looking for the power supply specs for the OnQ modules for ALC lighting. The ALC-Elk controller module, and the OnQ ALC distribution module, both have power supply connections, but I am unclear on what wall warts ot use with those.

Sorry! I missed that!
The ALC modules also have silk screening that show the voltage and the center pin polarity (12VDC Center Pin Positive). Here too the amperage is missing. The specs call for an 800MA supply for the lighting controller although I suspect the actual current draw to be less. Here is a link to all the spec sheets.

God Bless
TS

 

[AceCannon]

This looks like a potential ALC scene switch. Any suggestions on how to implement? Sorry if it has already been mentioned.

 

[TonyStewart]

This looks like a potential ALC scene switch. Any suggestions on how to implement? Sorry if it has already been mentioned.

Yes, this is an excellent scene switch. Just remember that it takes a lot of serial strings for it to be useful. With the Elk M1 one KPL7 serial string required for a single button uses close to 2% of the available rule space (button only, the LED uses another 1 to 2%). Since there are 7 buttons and each can have an LED and you can also flash the LED etc, 7 buttons and their LED's can eat up a whole lot of the available rule space.

When using the Omni Pro II, you can have 128 serial messages and less (64) with an omni IIe. So as you can see, using serial strings with controllers eats up a lot of resources.

In a small install one or two KPL7 keypads make a great addition if you are using the controller for basic applications. However if you are creative and/or tend to "max out" your install, the KPL7 should be used sparingly!

Of course if you are sending and receiving raw data from the controller's bus for use with say.... CQC, then the serial limitations are not a consideration.

TS

 

[felixrosbergen]

Tony:

The ALC<> Interface came with the power supply, but when not plugged in eveything seems to work fine. Seems like the unit is getting it's power from the ELK databus. The Expansion module didnt come with a power supply but does have a connection for it.

Does the power supply need to be plugged into the ALC<>ELK interface? Would this backfeed power into the ELK databus?

What is the draw of the ALC<>Elk module when the PSU is connected and when not. This is needed to calculate the alarm system runtime on batteries.

If under ELK control, is the 'Fade Rate' option within ELK usable for the ALC switches at all? The setting doesnt seem to have an affect on the switches.

In some cases the dimmers seem to come on in 2 stages, first to ramp to a certain point and then on to full brightness. Is this normal?

I have one switch (one i bought six month ago as a sample/test) that doesnt seem to be responding to the local control (rocker) very well. It works sometimes, but not always. It works perfect throw remote control. Any idea whats wrong here?

Besides the above minor comments the ALC install is going slow but smooth and once properly connected the switches don't miss a beat.

 

[TonyStewart]

Tony:

The ALC<> Interface came with the power supply, but when not plugged in eveything seems to work fine. Seems like the unit is getting it's power from the ELK databus. The Expansion module didnt come with a power supply but does have a connection for it.

Does the power supply need to be plugged into the ALC<>ELK interface? Would this backfeed power into the ELK databus?

What is the draw of the ALC<>Elk module when the PSU is connected and when not. This is needed to calculate the alarm system runtime on batteries.

If under ELK control, is the 'Fade Rate' option within ELK usable for the ALC switches at all? The setting doesnt seem to have an affect on the switches.

In some cases the dimmers seem to come on in 2 stages, first to ramp to a certain point and then on to full brightness. Is this normal?

I have one switch (one i bought six month ago as a sample/test) that doesnt seem to be responding to the local control (rocker) very well. It works sometimes, but not always. It works perfect throw remote control. Any idea whats wrong here?

Besides the above minor comments the ALC install is going slow but smooth and once properly connected the switches don't miss a beat.

The ALC to M1 interface is the same current draw as the Stand Alone ALC interface. I will get beck to you on the power supply questions.

As for the rocker issue, take it apart ad see if the rocker and springs (tiny little suckers so beware) are aligned right. I have rarely seen one that needs attention, but yours could.

ALC uses RAMP OVER TIME not fade. The difference is that with RAMP you can take hours to linearly and gradually bring a dimmer to desired setpoint. Fade is for UPB/X-10. If you want fast off/on press rocker twice. Otherwise it will go to the last bright level you set it to manually.

An example of RAMP over time is as follows. Set the dimmers to slowly ramp up in exact proportion as the sun sets. Eg. Program dimmers to start ramping at a 45 minute duration, 45 minutes before sunset. The effect is that the dimmers will ramp up slowly in the same time frame as the sun sets. THis is a nice feature. I am not aware of any other dimmer that can do this.

TS

 

[felixrosbergen]

Tony:

Can i control this RAMP OVER TIME function from the ELK via the EKL<>ALC interface?

The ELK lighting screen just give the FADE option but it setting it doesnt seem to do anything.

I'll take the switch apart and have a look...maybe the spring are not aligned like you say.

Thanks for your continued support in this forum.

By the way. Rather than using sticky tape to mount the ALC modules in the leviton panel i just driller some extra holes, worked like a charm and the original holes are still usable if i ever remove the modules. Pics in the showcase thread.

 

[beelzerob]

ALC uses RAMP OVER TIME not fade. The difference is that with RAMP you can take hours to linearly and gradually bring a dimmer to desired setpoint. Fade is for UPB/X-10. If you want fast off/on press rocker twice. Otherwise it will go to the last bright level you set it to manually.

My ALC dimmers do this:

[From OFF] Single "On" takes it to preset value, in less than a second (it is NOT instant). Double "On" takes it to full bright in less than a second. Double "Off"
[From ON] Single "Off" takes it to full Off instantly. Double "Off" takes it to Off in about 10 or more seconds.

I really like the double off effect....very slowly taking the lights down. (The amount of time it takes to do that MIGHT be the extended ramp setting). But I hate having to press the button twice to get it...it seems like it should be the default (single press) action, instead of the instant jump to Off.

Is there anyway to configure that differently, Tony? Looking at the documentation for the Scenetech software (I don't have the actual software), I didn't see anything that seemed to allow for configuring what happens when you hit the rocker once vs. twice.

 

[rosenqui]

This looks like a potential ALC scene switch. Any suggestions on how to implement? Sorry if it has already been mentioned.

I've got 10 of those around my place - great for cutting down on the switch clutter. I've got them hooked to an Aegis (OEM version of the old Omni Pro) which has native support for the keypad serial strings, so I don't use up any of the message string slots. The latest firmware from HAI for the II-series supposedly added direct support for the KPL7s, so that would make them very easy to work with vs. having to define all of the strings yourself.

Drawbacks I've found are:

* the buttons and the text are small - not much way around that for 7 buttons in a small space, but it makes it hard for grandma and grandpa to read the label.

* there's no separate on/off button for each of the 7 labels like there are on some other scene switches. That's not a big deal and you get more label space in return, but if you want to toggle a light on/off you have to use 2 buttons or you have to program the toggle logic yourself on your controller.

 

[TonyStewart]

Tony:

Can i control this RAMP OVER TIME function from the ELK via the EKL<>ALC interface?

The ELK lighting screen just give the FADE option but it setting it doesnt seem to do anything.

I'll take the switch apart and have a look...maybe the spring are not aligned like you say.

Thanks for your continued support in this forum.

By the way. Rather than using sticky tape to mount the ALC modules in the leviton panel i just driller some extra holes, worked like a charm and the original holes are still usable if i ever remove the modules. Pics in the showcase thread.

I will ask Elk about this. It should be as easy as adding a little code and then downloading the update. However, they have so many nice new features ahead that they are prioritizing which ones come first.

I am very happy with the Schlage Z-Wave locks (thermostas and camers soon) and am currently in talks with Elk to add support for that. I noticed that the locks have already been discussed on Cocoontech. I have several of these installed in our training center and like them alot. I mentioned this to support my comment that Elk is very busy adding new features and I am not sure when support for Ramp over time will be added. For those of you who do your own coding for products like CQC, then you can use this feature now.

Good job on the holes, double sided tape is always last resort!

TS

TS

 

[TonyStewart]

ALC uses RAMP OVER TIME not fade. The difference is that with RAMP you can take hours to linearly and gradually bring a dimmer to desired setpoint. Fade is for UPB/X-10. If you want fast off/on press rocker twice. Otherwise it will go to the last bright level you set it to manually.

My ALC dimmers do this:

[From OFF] Single "On" takes it to preset value, in less than a second (it is NOT instant). Double "On" takes it to full bright in less than a second. Double "Off"
[From ON] Single "Off" takes it to full Off instantly. Double "Off" takes it to Off in about 10 or more seconds.

I really like the double off effect....very slowly taking the lights down. (The amount of time it takes to do that MIGHT be the extended ramp setting). But I hate having to press the button twice to get it...it seems like it should be the default (single press) action, instead of the instant jump to Off.

Is there anyway to configure that differently, Tony? Looking at the documentation for the Scenetech software (I don't have the actual software), I didn't see anything that seemed to allow for configuring what happens when you hit the rocker once vs. twice.

The double press is a function of the switch and not programming (although Scenetech may allow changes to the timing - not sure, will check). Double tap is a pretty standard feature for dimmers, even analog dimmers use this.

Once you brighten the dimmer to a level and leave it there manually, a single press will take it to that level every time you press it once. Double tap will take it to full bright (just like all other brands and like analog dimmers). If you want full on to be a single press, then you manually brighten it to full on and a single press will take it to that level every time.

If you are using automated scenes, then try this: use a scene to set a brighten level and then see what a manual single press will do. I will also try this and advise.

Once upon a time, the ramp and fade for ALC was user accessible. But I am not sure of how to access that now. I will let you know the inside poop later, once I talk with OnQ.

TS

 

[beelzerob]

Ya, the On functionality is fine....single press for the preset value, double for full...no problems with that. It's just the Off functionality I'd like to change. I'd like a single press Off to ramp it down very slow, and a double press to be the instant-off, instead of the way they are now.

 

[broconne]

ALC uses RAMP OVER TIME not fade. The difference is that with RAMP you can take hours to linearly and gradually bring a dimmer to desired setpoint. Fade is for UPB/X-10. If you want fast off/on press rocker twice. Otherwise it will go to the last bright level you set it to manually.

My ALC dimmers do this:

[From OFF] Single "On" takes it to preset value, in less than a second (it is NOT instant). Double "On" takes it to full bright in less than a second. Double "Off"
[From ON] Single "Off" takes it to full Off instantly. Double "Off" takes it to Off in about 10 or more seconds.

I really like the double off effect....very slowly taking the lights down. (The amount of time it takes to do that MIGHT be the extended ramp setting). But I hate having to press the button twice to get it...it seems like it should be the default (single press) action, instead of the instant jump to Off.

Is there anyway to configure that differently, Tony? Looking at the documentation for the Scenetech software (I don't have the actual software), I didn't see anything that seemed to allow for configuring what happens when you hit the rocker once vs. twice.

The double press is a function of the switch and not programming (although Scenetech may allow changes to the timing - not sure, will check). Double tap is a pretty standard feature for dimmers, even analog dimmers use this.

Once you brighten the dimmer to a level and leave it there manually, a single press will take it to that level every time you press it once. Double tap will take it to full bright (just like all other brands and like analog dimmers). If you want full on to be a single press, then you manually brighten it to full on and a single press will take it to that level every time.

If you are using automated scenes, then try this: use a scene to set a brighten level and then see what a manual single press will do. I will also try this and advise.

Once upon a time, the ramp and fade for ALC was user accessible. But I am not sure of how to access that now. I will let you know the inside poop later, once I talk with OnQ.

TS

Tony -
I think what people are saying is the double tap for "on" is correct. But the double tap for off is certainly out of spec with the rest of the industry. A single tap should dim the lights off and a double should turn them off immediately. It sounds like the OnQ does the opposite.