Help planning Elk system

[SnyperBob]

Hi guys,

I think I'm finally to the point where I'm ready to buy my security panel and stuff. Here's my requirements

- I need to have 3 or 4 keypads.
- I have a detached garage that has cat5 and cat6 run to it that needs monitoring. One of the above keypads will be in the garage.
- I need to have 3 or 4 piezo screamers.
- Ability to monitor one motion, two windows and two doors in the garage

Here's my questions. I don't want to spend much initially, but I do want an Elk. Would I be able to get away with just an M1EZ8 for the above criteria?

Based on other threads I've read here, I'm thinking an M1EZ8 for the main panel inside the house. Split the data bus using a Data Bus Hub ELK-M1DBH (or Elk-M1DBHR??) which would also be located in the main panel. Run one data bus to the garage via Cat5e. In the garage have ELK-M1XIN 16 zone expander. Garage sensors plug into the XIN

Will the above work for what I want to do? Will I be able to monitor the doors, windows and motions in the garage via the ELK-M1XIN? Or does the XIN only do windows/doors and not motion?

Do you think I need to go to an M1G rather than an M1EZ8? I don't need overkill. The only additions in the future that I foresee would be the ability to hook the M1EZ8 to a computer for monitoring. I was also thinking I might be interested in an ethernet expansion in the future. And also possibly a Powerlinc for controlling a few lights via the M1. Would an M1EZ8 be able to handle all of that?

I'm thinking I'll want to have like 6 motion detectors (1 of those in garage), 12 window/door sensors (4 in garage), and 3 glassbreaks. Will the EZ8 handle this, along with the keypads? I'd prefer to go with a less expensive EZ8 so I can afford those couple extra modules for monitoring the garage.

What are your thoughts and would the setup I explained with the DBH and XIN work how I explain above?

 

[mustangcoupe]

What are your thoughts and would the setup I explained with the DBH and XIN work how I explain above?

not sure about the ez vs the m1g question, but you will need 2 data lines in the garage, 1 for the expansion module, and one for the keypad. Along with a power source for the motion sensor.

 

[electron]

The M1EZ8 is a great unit, and can do almost everything its big brother can. You can connect it to a PC if you use the serial port add-on module, which also means you can use it with the M1XEP (I had this setup myself). While it doesn't offer some of the nice features of the M1G such as the voice announcements, phone control, etc., it should be fine for the requirements you mentioned. Just keep in mind you only get 8 onboard inputs vs the 16 the big unit comes with (but you can use expanders).

You can find a list of the differences between these 2 panels here.

 

[AceCannon]

not sure about the ez vs the m1g question, but you will need 2 data lines in the garage, 1 for the expansion module, and one for the keypad. Along with a power source for the motion sensor.

Someone will correct me if I am wrong, but I am under the impression that since keypads and input expanders both sit on the M1's databus, you would not necessarily need two data lines. They could be daisychained as long as the terminating jumper is done correctly.

Also, you could get power for the motion from the databus.

 

[Digger]

Ace I would say you are correct.

 

[mustangcoupe]

not knowing the length of the cable to the garage I was afrade of voltage drop to the motion sensor which is why I said he would need a power source. And as for the data cable, can you split it after a DBH? if so you learn new things each day B)

 

[jwilson56]

Well I myself have an EZ8 system that I use with Girder and its Elk plugin. Combined with Girder it does everything I want it to. If you can afford it the M1 might be worth it for you though.

 

[Digger]

Todd,

Most motions actually operate down to 9 to 9.5 vdc (at least the ones I tested). The databus is 13.5 vdc and you would probably not see that much of a voltage drop if you keep it to 500 to 800 feet or so. I do recommend 2 batteries (8 aH each) since there will be several keypads and other devices)

If the OP is going to use more than 8 wired zones and wants the ethernet adaptor etc in the future I would probably lean towards the M1G since it will be almost the same price in the end (zone expander, serial adaptor for the EZ8 to the XEP etc). The EZ8 and the M1G are both great panels so its a matter of how the numbers crunch if you dont need the differences in the two models.

I had PM'd the OP with an offer to work with him on the price. He might already have a vendor of choice and thats fine but maybe I can save him a few bucks.

 

[SnyperBob]

If the OP is going to use more than 8 wired zones and wants the ethernet adaptor etc in the future I would probably lean towards the M1G since it will be almost the same price in the end (zone expander, serial adaptor for the EZ8 to the XEP etc). The EZ8 and the M1G are both great panels so its a matter of how the numbers crunch if you dont need the differences in the two models.

I'm not sure how many zones I would want to implement for my system. What is a zone? Would a zone give me better info if one was violated? ie...I could put each of my 4 floors and garage on their own zone? And then if one is violated I would instantly be able to look at a keypad and it would tell me which zone was violated? I don't think I would want more than 8 if that's the case

Now you mentioned needing a serial adaptor for the EZ8 to XEP. What does this mean?
I thought the M1EZ8 comes with one RS232 onboard. But is that only for controlling lights? ie....I would be able to get an Insteon PLC and plug that directly into the EZ8's rs232 port and then the EZ8 can control lights?

I'm looking over the install manual for the ethernet add-on and it says if I have an EZ8 panel I would need an M1EZ8MSI, is that because the ethernet add-on has to have a port 0 serial port on the security panel (M1G has this, EZ8 does not)

Also, with a stock EZ8, will I be able to fire off individual piezo screamers? Or will all three need to be hooked in parallel or whatever and they'll all fire off at the same time? Would I need a relay expansion or something to have individual control?

 

[Digger]

I'm not sure how many zones I would want to implement for my system. What is a zone? Would a zone give me better info if one was violated? ie...I could put each of my 4 floors and garage on their own zone? And then if one is violated I would instantly be able to look at a keypad and it would tell me which zone was violated? I don't think I would want more than 8 if that's the case

I personally put everything on its own zone so I know what is violated either by looking at the keypad etc.

Now you mentioned needing a serial adaptor for the EZ8 to XEP. What does this mean?
I thought the M1EZ8 comes with one RS232 onboard. But is that only for controlling lights? ie....I would be able to get an Insteon PLC and plug that directly into the EZ8's rs232 port and then the EZ8 can control lights?

I'm looking over the install manual for the ethernet add-on and it says if I have an EZ8 panel I would need an M1EZ8MSI, is that because the ethernet add-on has to have a port 0 serial port on the security panel (M1G has this, EZ8 does not)

The EZ8 does not have an on board RS232 connection like the M1G so you will need the M1EZ8MSI as you stated.

Also, with a stock EZ8, will I be able to fire off individual piezo screamers? Or will all three need to be hooked in parallel or whatever and they'll all fire off at the same time? Would I need a relay expansion or something to have individual control?

If you want to have individual control of the sirens you can use the ELK-M1RB connected to the on board outputs of the EZ8 or M1G and write rules for what you want to occur.

 

[felixrosbergen]

Or you could consider all the sensors in the garage to be one zone and use the extra zone keypad gives you...no databus issues then..

 

[SnyperBob]

What are your thoughts and would the setup I explained with the DBH and XIN work how I explain above?

not sure about the ez vs the m1g question, but you will need 2 data lines in the garage, 1 for the expansion module, and one for the keypad. Along with a power source for the motion sensor.

Can someone tell me if this is true. Based on the comments after the above quote, I'm not sure. Basically the cat5e run to the detached garage is about 80-100 feet. I have power available in the garage. Is one cat5e enough, or do I need two to put the ELK-M1XIN in the garage along with 1 motion detector and 4 window/door sensors, keypad and prox reader?

Just keep in mind you only get 8 onboard inputs vs the 16 the big unit comes with (but you can use expanders).

So does this mean I will only be able to plug in 8 sensors into the security panel? I realize that the ELK-M1XIN that I will put in the garage will allow more sensors out there. But stock, I would only be able to plug in 8 sensors with an M1EZ8 (unless I put another ELK-M1XIN inside the house)?

I just want to make sure I'm understanding this correctly, because if that's correct I may just be better off going with an M1G rather than an EZ8.

If I go the EZ8 route, I already know I would need to buy an ELK-M1EZ8MSI for serial control (which the M1G already has). But if I need to also buy another ELK-M1XIN to put in more sensors (more than 8) inside the house I'm almost up to the cost of an M1G.

I guess I'm still confused about zones. Basically, is a zone a sensor? The EZ8 says "8 On-board Input Zones", and the M1G says "16 On-board Input Zones". So that means that's the number of sensors I can run into each panel without adding extra expanders, right?

If so, now I'm understanding why some installers wire an entire room in series or whatever. I assume that's so they can all just share the same zone. Please let me know if my thinking is correct

Also, what keypad do you recommend for a master bedroom? Are the blue ones super bright, or is that all adjustable? Is the blue annoying, or better on the eyes and more pleasing? Would you recommend one of the larger keypads for the bedroom because you can do more with them? ie...can you send custom messages to the LCB keypads? And I think I remember someone setting one of those older keypads so one of the function buttons would flash or light up to indicate a garage door was left open or they had an email/voicemail or something. I am very interested in an indicator like that to tell us the garage door is open

 

[Digger]

I personally like everything on its own zone but that is not a necessity. If you will have more than 8 zones in the house and teh XEP on the panel you really should consider the M1G. Each zone is like an address so when it trips you know what has tripped. It would be like looking for a person living in an apartment building and only having the street address and not the apartment number if you have more than one device on a zone.

You can put a zone expander on the same databuss line as teh keypad in the garage but you need to put it in an enclosure. The ELK 12 or 14 inch enclosures would be fine but you can use something else if you wanted to be creative.

For keypads I like the white text on blue background. I think they are easier to read at a distance. I would also dim it down (software settable through ELK-RP).

You had asked about Prox readers in your PM and I forgot to say you should ask opinions on Cards vs FOBS. I like FOBS for keychains but a card for a wallet.

 

[SnyperBob]

ok, cool. Thanks for all the info. I'll probably order a system with a can, and also order a 28" separate. Then I can use the smaller can in the garage and the larger in the wiring closet.

I'll let you know if I have anymore questions. I'm glad I can run everything in the garage off the one cat5e, since I already pulled the wires and that's all I have alotted out there

 

[Digger]

ok, cool. Thanks for all the info. I'll probably order a system with a can, and also order a 28" separate. Then I can use the smaller can in the garage and the larger in the wiring closet.

I'll let you know if I have anymore questions. I'm glad I can run everything in the garage off the one cat5e, since I already pulled the wires and that's all I have alotted out there

At some point as the system grows you will probably need an aux power supply. You will have the option of putting it in the 28 inch can or the 14. If the garage is unheated or gets extremely hot I would say put it in the house because of the battery backup. \

Cocoontech will always be here for you to ask questions as you expand your system over the years.