Help planning Elk system

[Monk]

Hello,


What are those rail things called, and do you have an idea where I could buy something like that?

Snypez - The highlighted area of the photo appears to be 16 zone expanders - quantity = 2

EDIT:
However - now that I look @ a picture of what I thought it was, they look different -

http://automatedoutlet.com/Home/System-Expansions/ELK-M1XIN

Could just be that automated outlet is selling a newer version of the zone expanders.. ? Anybody know?

PS the reason they look like "rails" is that you see them from an end view - they are mounted with plastic guides.

 

[SnyperBob]

Hi guys,

I've been working on hooking everything up and I'm running into some really basic questions. I'm hoping some of you can chime in with some suggestions.....

ok, in regards to my EOL resistors, can I splice them in using the Elk yellow jacket crimp connectors? I was thinking maybe I could use the yellow jackets and then wrap it all up with electrical tape. I would assume soldering the connections would be best with heat shrink covering the bare wires, but crimping yellow jackets would save a lot of time. I've never used anything like these yellow jackets

Also, I want to test my panel out, so I'm looking to hook a keypad up to it temporarily, before setting up a databus hub and moving the keypad to the master bedroom. My question is, for testing in the wiring closet, should I wire the keypad to J1/J2 on the bottom right of the M1G? Or should I wire it to the actual data bus area above J1/J2?

I will only be using the keypad, no optional input or output.......I will only be using 4 wires to wire up the keypad, correct?

ok, and this is an important question I think.....if I am just plugging the keypad into the M1G, then I need to terminate the data bus by putting in the jumper in my one keypad? But if I install the databus hub and hook my one keypad up to the databus hub, then I terminate the bus at the databus hub (first unused jack), and not at the actual keypad, right?

Sorry for all the noob questions, I just want to take my time on this and not screw it up, thanks in advance!

 

[Steve]

ok, in regards to my EOL resistors, can I splice them in using the Elk yellow jacket crimp connectors? I was thinking maybe I could use the yellow jackets and then wrap it all up with electrical tape. I would assume soldering the connections would be best with heat shrink covering the bare wires, but crimping yellow jackets would save a lot of time. I've never used anything like these yellow jackets

You may have some difficulty getting both the lead of the resistor and the wire in the 'beenie'. Also I have seen sometime bad connections with them. If you will use them, I would wrap the wire around the lead first to make sure they are in contact. Also, using the beenie and tape may make it more difficult to shove the sensor and EOL thru the hole. Solder and heat shrink would certainly make a better and cleaner installation, and since you are hopefully only doing it once, it may be worth the extra effort.

Also, I want to test my panel out, so I'm looking to hook a keypad up to it temporarily, before setting up a databus hub and moving the keypad to the master bedroom. My question is, for testing in the wiring closet, should I wire the keypad to J1/J2 on the bottom right of the M1G? Or should I wire it to the actual data bus area above J1/J2?

It really should not matter. I never used J1/J2 myself but they should work fine.

I will only be using the keypad, no optional input or output.......I will only be using 4 wires to wire up the keypad, correct?

Yes. But you may need to go into RP and disable zones as they may come come up as violated if they are configured and nothing is connected.

ok, and this is an important question I think.....if I am just plugging the keypad into the M1G, then I need to terminate the data bus by putting in the jumper in my one keypad? But if I install the databus hub and hook my one keypad up to the databus hub, then I terminate the bus at the databus hub (first unused jack), and not at the actual keypad, right?

Yes, that's right, however. you also need to terminate the controller itself, so JP3 should also be on. This is true in either scenario as long as the controller is one 'end' of the bus which is what you have if just 1 wire is connected. If you had say 2 keypads connected directly to the controller, each with their own wire (2 wires now on the controller) then you would terminate each of the keypads and not JP3.

 

[SnyperBob]

ok, I'm having a hell of a time getting this M1G up and running. The directions seem very confusing. I wish they would list the wires in the directions like they are in the connectors for the keypads. I'm colorblind and trying to figure out green/red/brown is a fkn nightmare.

Anyway, I'm back with more questions. I already have an Insteon PLM that I'm controlling lights with other software. What would it take to get my PLM set up so that my M1G controls lights in the house? The PLM has a serial connector. Can I just make a cable that goes from the PLM and plugs directly into the M1G's telephone-like connector (J5)?

Or do I need to buy a serial port expander for the M1G and then plug the PLM into a serial port? Or is this not even possible?

Oh, and where can I get a copy of ElkRP? I don't understand why they would have ElkRP in the install manual but not include the software with the purchase. I tried registering on the site and I keep getting errors that my username is incorrect. Is this only allowed for sellers/dealers or something?
This is where I tried to register:
http://m1dealer.elkproducts.com/index.php?...mp;module=users

 

[WayneW]

I already have an Insteon PLM that I'm controlling lights with other software. What would it take to get my PLM set up so that my M1G controls lights in the house? The PLM has a serial connector. Can I just make a cable that goes from the PLM and plugs directly into the M1G's telephone-like connector (J5)?

Or do I need to buy a serial port expander for the M1G and then plug the PLM into a serial port? Or is this not even possible?

Yes, you need an XSP serial expander to connect to the serial PLM (or older PLC).

Oh, and where can I get a copy of ElkRP? I don't understand why they would have ElkRP in the install manual but not include the software with the purchase. I tried registering on the site and I keep getting errors that my username is incorrect. Is this only allowed for sellers/dealers or something?

Yes, you need to register yourself and your panel serial number as a dealer on Elk's site. They accept DIYers as dealers without hassle. Once they manually add you, then you can get to the download area. I assume they don't distribute ElkRP with the panel as it would often be outdated and real dealers would already have a copy.

 

[Steve]

I can certainly understand color blindness making it challenging!

Can you see white? Look at the wiring diagram in either keypad manual. Here is KP2. The wires going in order Black, White, Green, Red, Blue, Brown. So if you can tell white from blue, then you know which end you're on and just go in order. On the controller bus connector, you put Red, Green, White, and Black in order from top to bottom. So, you should be able to follow that ok?

For Insteon, you need a serial port expander M1XSP and you need to load the Insteon firmware in it. Then you should be able to plug your serial PIM in. I don't use Insteon so beyond that, somebody else will need to answer.

For RP, yes, you need to get it from the dealer site you linked. If you are having trouble signing up just call Elk Support. Once you have a login you can just download RP. I know AO used to include a cd with rp not sure if they do any more. Since it is regularly updated, it would not really make sense for Elk to include them as they would get outdated.

 

[Digger]

I can certainly understand color blindness making it challenging!

Can you see white? Look at the wiring diagram in either keypad manual. Here is KP2. The wires going in order Black, White, Green, Red, Blue, Brown. So if you can tell white from blue, then you know which end you're on and just go in order. On the controller bus connector, you put Red, Green, White, and Black in order from top to bottom. So, you should be able to follow that ok?

For Insteon, you need a serial port expander M1XSP and you need to load the Insteon firmware in it. Then you should be able to plug your serial PIM in. I don't use Insteon so beyond that, somebody else will need to answer.

For RP, yes, you need to get it from the dealer site you linked. If you are having trouble signing up just call Elk Support. Once you have a login you can just download RP. I know AO used to include a cd with rp not sure if they do any more. Since it is regularly updated, it would not really make sense for Elk to include them as they would get outdated.

Elk prefers if DIY call their dealer first for assistance and not their tech support.

Bob you have a PM with information you need to get you going. Elk no longer provides the CD as it is more effecient to have it downloaded.

 

[Steve]

Elk prefers if DIY call their dealer first for assistance and not their tech support.

Yea, but how is a dealer going to help them with a login problem on the Elk website? If he is having trouble registering he should call Elk directly. Or, at least email them...

 

[Digger]

Elk prefers if DIY call their dealer first for assistance and not their tech support.

Yea, but how is a dealer going to help them with a login problem on the Elk website? If he is having trouble registering he should call Elk directly. Or, at least email them...

A dealer can give him assistance by walking him through it and a temporary login to get the RP immediately. I gave him a temporary log in via PM so he can get the RP now and I can help him with getting registered as well.

 

[SnyperBob]

I can certainly understand color blindness making it challenging!

Can you see white? Look at the wiring diagram in either keypad manual. Here is KP2. The wires going in order Black, White, Green, Red, Blue, Brown. So if you can tell white from blue, then you know which end you're on and just go in order. On the controller bus connector, you put Red, Green, White, and Black in order from top to bottom. So, you should be able to follow that ok?

Thanks Steve, I will save that color chart for future reference. That helps a lot.

 

[SnyperBob]

Elk prefers if DIY call their dealer first for assistance and not their tech support.

Yea, but how is a dealer going to help them with a login problem on the Elk website? If he is having trouble registering he should call Elk directly. Or, at least email them...

A dealer can give him assistance by walking him through it and a temporary login to get the RP immediately. I gave him a temporary log in via PM so he can get the RP now and I can help him with getting registered as well.

Thank you, got it and you're right.....RP is way easier to program stuff.

 

[SnyperBob]

OK, so I'm thinking I'll eventually want to get my w800rf and Insteon PLM connected to my M1G.

Will I have to buy two Elk-M1XSP's for this? Both devices are serial. I'm asking this question because I'm wondering if I can use the on-board serial port for one of these devices. Or if I use the on-board serial port for one of these, then I won't be able to use that serial port to program the panel via ElkRP?

If I use the onboard serial port for one of these devices, would I then have to buy the Elk ethernet expansion to then be able to program the M1G? Or could I just unplug the device using the on-board serial port, plug into my computer and still program?

I'm trying to figure out the cheapest way to get everything connected. Not sure if I need 2 XSP's, or 1 XSP and an Ethernet expansion (while using the onboard serial port). I'll eventually get the ethernet expansion, so if I don't have to buy two XSP's I'd rather not.

Man, I'm guessing I should have went with a bigger can, lol. I am glad I went with the M1G however. This thing is a tank

 

[Digger]

OK, so I'm thinking I'll eventually want to get my w800rf and Insteon PLM connected to my M1G.

Will I have to buy two Elk-M1XSP's for this? Both devices are serial. I'm asking this question because I'm wondering if I can use the on-board serial port for one of these devices. Or if I use the on-board serial port for one of these, then I won't be able to use that serial port to program the panel via ElkRP?

If I use the onboard serial port for one of these devices, would I then have to buy the Elk ethernet expansion to then be able to program the M1G? Or could I just unplug the device using the on-board serial port, plug into my computer and still program?

I'm trying to figure out the cheapest way to get everything connected. Not sure if I need 2 XSP's, or 1 XSP and an Ethernet expansion (while using the onboard serial port). I'll eventually get the ethernet expansion, so if I don't have to buy two XSP's I'd rather not.

Man, I'm guessing I should have went with a bigger can, lol. I am glad I went with the M1G however. This thing is a tank

To program teh M1 with RP you need to connect to the main serial port with a cable to your PC or through the XEP connected to the main serial port. You can unplug your lighting control to plug in the cable to your PC if you want but your would have to unplug and plug back in etc to test things related to lighting.

With INsteon the best way to control it would be with an ISY unit from UDI (not cheap but well worth it) that would connect via the XEP. It would keep the ELK up to date on all status changes of the switches. They may still be selling refurbished units at UDI.

 

[SnyperBob]

ok, cool. I won't be able to afford an ISY for a while, but i already have the PLM. Man, this hobby gets expensive :icon_pai:

I'll be ordering more stuff from you soon, this is getting fun. So far I have one keypad and 4 sensors hooked up (weak, I know). I have a lot more work to do!

I came back just now to get Steve's color guide so I can wire the up the second keypad, lol

 

[SnyperBob]

ok, I'm back with another question about my Weigand RF reader. I want to connect it to a Keypad3 in my coat closet. The Weigand reader will be outside of the house. I would ideally like to use this when leaving and entering the house to disarm/arm the system.

I'm looking over the directions and it only shows hooking up 4 of the wires from the Weigand reader. Neg,Pos, Data 0 and Data 1.

From what I can tell, this means the Weigand reader would function, but the LED light and buzzer would not work. I would like the buzzer at least to work, so I have audible confirmation while outside of the house that the system was armed/disarmed.

What do I need to do to get the buzzer working? the directions say the buzzer is the blue wire and that's Negative "-" input. What does this mean? Would I have to run an output from the M1G panel to this blue input wire to have the buzzer sound? And then somehow program into the M1G to sound the buzzer when a fob is read?

Please let me know, if that's the case I'll need to run one wire from the reader to the keypad (4 conductor), and another wire from the reader to the M1G (2 conductor)

Hmmm, then again the keypad itself has an output onboard that is says is for an LED or relay. I don't care about running that LED on the Weigand, but I need that buzzer. Would the 50mA output on the keypad power the buzzer? The install directions for the weigand say it's current draw is 50mA, but I dunno if that includes the buzzer. Man this is confusing.....