Helping new home owner w/ large Insteon installation

[lhfarm]

The son of a friend purchased a home that come with a large number of Insteon switches (I would guess at least 40-50), an ISY 99i, Elk security panel and a multi-camera surveillance system. The previous owner gave them a quick lesson with the controller software and left town. That was several months ago. A number of the switches appear to be dead and they haven't been able to find an electrician who will replace them. They asked if I would take a look. I told them that I have no experience with any of this equipment, but would try to help. They would like to get the systems working, but don't want to purchase replacement switches until they know what they are doing.

First, I think the house was built in 2007 or 8 and I believe the systems were installed at that time. I don't have any Insteon switches but remember reading here that there were lots of QC issues and early switches dying. I have suggested that the owners do an inventory of the number of switches installed and the number which need to be replaced (I've suggested replacing dead switches with standard switches so the lights function for now). I would hope that they could contact SH and get some help through a direct replacement of the defective swithces. From what I've read here that isn't likely to happen (I hope someone will tell me I'm wrong).

Thoughts and suggestions for helping these folks with their HA would be greatly appreicated.



Thanks,
Barry

 

[sloop]

they might replace them - they know their products are crap and are pretty good at swapping crap for crap

the isy will be a big help when replacing them - if you need help with the isy, they have a forum - you will need a pc to access the isy

http://www.universal-devices.com/

if the owner can't replace a light switch, you will be a busy man replacing craplincz for them - i'd steer them toward another technology or dropping the automated lighting

on the upside, maybe they will pay you in beer - you'll have a steady supply until they decide to abandon insteon

 

[Digger]

My opinion is if SH replaces the devices for free then give it a shot if you have the time. If they wont replace them take a step back and see do they really want automated lighting and if they do would another protocol be better for them before you spend thousands of dollars.

 

[tmbrown97]

I'm not a SH fan or insteon for that matter, but you guys are painting a picture like it's a plague to avoid... if there's ~50 switches in the place and 4 or 5 dead ones, it probably doesn't make sense to abandon the technology. Recent users have indicated a high degree of satisfaction in the products and a perception that the quality issues are a thing of the past.

I have no first hand experience with insteon - just watching what gets posted here by users whenever someone asks about lighting technologies.

Definitely contact SmartHome - and see what they'll do - but regardless, if it were me, I'd keep the insteon switches and fix the bad ones - that's probably a good $3K+ in lighting technology that you probably don't want to swap out if you don't have to.

 

[Digger]

From first hand experience of the product a few years ago it "WAS" garbage. I also hear that there has been some improvement but time tell if that is true. There is a likely hood that most of those switches will go bad. If SH replaces them fine. If they dont would you want to risk spending the money replacing them?

 

[rusgrafx]

Come on you UPB fan boys. I've had Insteon for close to 5 years and in all those years only one (1) KeypadLinc went south (figuratively and literally), and it was replaced by SH with newer model for free.

Now, if the guy bought the house with huge automation package (and I'm sure he paid for the privilege) maybe he sees value in it, so don't tell him to abandon the ship altogether. Better help him to get back on track. Be constructive.

What are the options?

I'm not sure SH will replace the switches for free, since he is not an original owner (he didn't buy them, no account with SH). But it won't hurt to ask, right? Maybe they'll give a discount or something. Just be polite on the phone and don't scream that they sell crap, and you will get help. By the way, right now SH is running a 20% off promotion for St. Patty's day - it's a good deal.

Where is this son of a friend lives. If it's within driving distance I could at least have a look at the stuff.

Cheers.

 

[lhfarm]

Come on you UPB fan boys. I've had Insteon for close to 5 years and in all those years only one (1) KeypadLinc went south (figuratively and literally), and it was replaced by SH with newer model for free.

Now, if the guy bought the house with huge automation package (and I'm sure he paid for the privilege) maybe he sees value in it, so don't tell him to abandon the ship altogether. Better help him to get back on track. Be constructive.

What are the options?

I'm not sure SH will replace the switches for free, since he is not an original owner (he didn't buy them, no account with SH). But it won't hurt to ask, right? Maybe they'll give a discount or something. Just be polite on the phone and don't scream that they sell crap, and you will get help. By the way, right now SH is running a 20% off promotion for St. Patty's day - it's a good deal.

Where is this son of a friend lives. If it's within driving distance I could at least have a look at the stuff.

Cheers.

Not sure where the HA played in the purchase of this very big home. It is located in rural central Indiana. Not a lot of installers around here. I think they would like for it to work and to enjoy it. Since I'm not sure of the failure rate, I'm hoping to keep the setup and just get it to a working state.

My experience is with X-10 (over 20 years) and Z-wave. I'm not ready to recommend either of those at the moment. I just retired a few months ago, so I'm happy to help and have the time. Just want a good outcome for them.

Thanks,
Barry

 

[BLH]

There where tact switch problems with the early SwitchLincs. Smarthome/Smartlabs extended the warranty to seven years on them.
If it is the paddles don't work but can be controlled by power line commands. You maybe able to get them replaced. If they where purchased through Smarthome and you have the order number. Which can be found in your on line account information if you don't have the invoice in your hands.
If it was from an independent dealer. You have to go through them but some folks here got the run around from their dealer and Smarthome.

 

[Digger]

The problem is that they are not the original owner. Even though there are known defects SH may not do the right thing and replace the switches. If they do great. If they dont then would the homeowner want to start pouring money into a system where a lot of the devices may fail.

 

[apostolakisl]

Take the switchplate cover off and look at the switch version number. I believe 3.5 and below are the ones that are bad. Call SH and just pretend to be the guy you bought the house from and tell them your switches are all having the "paddle problem" and that you want all of them replaced. They will do it without trouble as long as you pretend to be the original purchaser and they don't require that you prove you are. As long as you know the name of the person who bought them and where they were shipped you are good. You can even buy the new switches on a different credit card to do a cross ship and they will credit you back when they get them back.

They are shipping v5 switches now which are very nice. They consume less than 1 watt of power, don't have the paddle issue and also have a beep function built in as well as ability to dim the led in the switch. You don't need an electricion to change out the switches but it will take you some time if there are 50 or so. The ISY will make the process waaaaaaay easier as there is a "replace with" command that will allow you to swap them out without doing any reprogramming. You should also update your ISY firmware prior to doing the switch as ISY has added lost of features and fixed some bugs.

You will also want to follow the ISY forum as they are soon to add full Elk integration.

 

[electron]

If you don't get anywhere with SmartHome, let me know, and I'll ping my contacts. If there is anything else we can do, don't hesitate to post. Pretty interesting that we are starting to see homes on the market, which include DIY home automation gear.

 

[tmbrown97]

Pretty interesting that we are starting to see homes on the market, which include DIY home automation gear.

To go with my other post - this is a potentially significant change in the tides - if our "hobby" becomes something more - a value booster in our homes (and therefore an investment) - it should change the mentality in designing our systems (to something others can support) and help WAF!

 

[lhfarm]

Take the switchplate cover off and look at the switch version number. I believe 3.5 and below are the ones that are bad. Call SH and just pretend to be the guy you bought the house from and tell them your switches are all having the "paddle problem" and that you want all of them replaced. They will do it without trouble as long as you pretend to be the original purchaser and they don't require that you prove you are. As long as you know the name of the person who bought them and where they were shipped you are good. You can even buy the new switches on a different credit card to do a cross ship and they will credit you back when they get them back.

They are shipping v5 switches now which are very nice. They consume less than 1 watt of power, don't have the paddle issue and also have a beep function built in as well as ability to dim the led in the switch. You don't need an electricion to change out the switches but it will take you some time if there are 50 or so. The ISY will make the process waaaaaaay easier as there is a "replace with" command that will allow you to swap them out without doing any reprogramming. You should also update your ISY firmware prior to doing the switch as ISY has added lost of features and fixed some bugs.

You will also want to follow the ISY forum as they are soon to add full Elk integration.

The two switches I saw seem to be electronically dead - no lite LED or paddle response. I'll have the owners send me some version numbers. I don't know if they have any documentation on when/where the equipment was purchased.

I need a better understanding of Insteon, before I tackle the ISY. I haven't checked Smarthome, but can you recommend some reading that might get me up to speed? I was a programmer in a former life and started using X-10 in the late 80s (I just found a 5 1/2" floppy labeled X-10 Home Control while cleaning out my garage) so I think I can figure this out. In such a big house, I'm concerned about "network" reliability. There are two main service panels and one sub-panel. There is no wired phase coupler but the owner says there are modules plugged into an outlet on each level that are suppose to boost signals. I'm assuming these are RF-access points. Does Insteon have the same signal characteristics as X-10 or does the "repeater" function of each device make it much less of an issue?

Thanks,
Barry

 

[pete_c]

A few years back I switched almost all of my X10 to Insteon. I started using X10 in the late 70's. I am currently still in the process of switching over the wall switches to UPB. I installed a phase coupler in the panel, XTB amplifier and two repeaters. In the last few years I've only had the paddle "issue" with about 2-3 switches. I don't recall when but updated the repeaters in the last few years. Other than this I have not really had any issues. Today my HAI OPII panel is still controlling the Insteon switches via the XTB amplifier using X10 just fine. I did call about the switches I had problems with and they were promptly replaced. I don't think you would have an issue doing similiar.

Depending on how much you want to get involved and or how well you know these folks; I would personally do an inventory of what is working and what is not working and replace the non working switches. While you are getting to know them I would also see if they even want the technology. Some folks even knowing what they have might not want anything to do with the technology and would prefer not to have any type of HA no matter how simple it is. IE: if nobody but you is interested in helping them and they have no interest in "fixing" what they have or even using it; it might be better just to remove it all except for the "security" pieces.

I have a friend whom recently built a home in Indiana on his farm. I helped him and we prewired the home for just about anything. I've known him for 30 years now and doubt very much that he will be utilizing even 10% of what we prewired. I doubt very much that he would use or want to install any automated lighting technology.

I am wondering how long the new folks have been in their house? Personally if I had light switches that didn't work but had no knowledge of the technology utilized I would have swapped them out with conventional switches within a few days of moving into the home. A conventional switch at a local big box HW is only a few dollars. Putting it in is a simple DIY. I don't believe a local resource would charge more than a few dollars to install it. (that whole safety thing).

 

[cwoodhouse]

I have had about 15 Insteon KeyLincs, RemoteLincs, Dimmers, appliancelincs line coupler, and PowerLinc modems working for 3 years without a single failure even with 3 units outside in weatherproof boxes. Go figure?