Homeseer 2.0 Ready for Release?
- Thread starter Skibum
- Start date
This protection scheme will stop just a few out of those thousands of users. Once the crack has been posted, it will be distributed just like the older HS1 crack. Since the Windows XP activation stuff has been hacked, I am sure that it won't take long before HS2 will be running into the same issues.
Meanwhile, the people who purchased the software are the ones dealing with the hassle. I totally agree that HST needs to do something about all the pirated versions out there, but I don't think this is a good way (and yes I am a programmer, work in IT as well, so I do know what I am talking about and completely understand HST's situation).
Meanwhile, the people who purchased the software are the ones dealing with the hassle. I totally agree that HST needs to do something about all the pirated versions out there, but I don't think this is a good way (and yes I am a programmer, work in IT as well, so I do know what I am talking about and completely understand HST's situation).
jwilson56
Senior Member
Its heating up...
http://board.homeseer.com/showthread.php?p=660662#post660662
Are only hope is that some pirate will crack the internet dongle should HST take a dive in the future..
John
http://board.homeseer.com/showthread.php?p=660662#post660662
Are only hope is that some pirate will crack the internet dongle should HST take a dive in the future..
John
I'm late to the discussion, but figured I'd add my .02...
I have the good fortune to be using a JDS stargate for my primary automation needs (didn't think I'd be saying that in 2005), and went to Homeseer to provide a web interface for everything and a few other handy features that complimented my aging, but reliable Stargate system.
Being a typical early adopter, I immediately upgraded to HS 2 when it was first available. Unfortunately, due to the nature of the upgrade, I decided I'd follow the advice and do a fresh install. For those who used HS for their primary automation system, I have no idea how they are coping.
I realize this was a complete overhaul, but it was handled very poorly. The staff seems to underestimate the value of a "bug list" to provide their user base with a list of known issues so that the users don't drive themselves crazy trying to figure things out.
I haven't had much time to dedicate to automation lately, but what little time I do have, I'm trying to get things back to normal such as my audrey automation and other features I used of Homeseer.
I've always recommended the homeseer product to other stargate users, but I'm not sure I can do that for quite some time. They have adopted some policies that are very upsetting. Not only does it appear that they are forgetting they got where they are by the help of their user base that created most of the plug-ins, but they set the minimum for plug-ins at $29.99. A product that does not have their user base behind them, is a product that will be gone from the marketplace quickly.
Homeseer, you've been good to me, and I've always been amazed at your user base that has provided every plug-in I've ever needed, but you've obviously let it go to your head. When I have to pay for a W800 interface plug-in and get nickeled and dimed for everything I want to use, I'd rather install a creston system and have RELIABILITY and know what I'm paying for. I have quite a bit of patience for emerging technology, but they've overestimated the patience of their user base.
I know there are still die hards that will argue with some of my points, as I've seen in this thead and in the homeseer boards, but frankly they are in the minority at this point and unless they plan on single-handedly supporting the company, I suggest they realize that we are only bashing because we are disappointed to with the product, their handling and increased hidden costs that will eventually result in their demise.
From a Crippled, but happy Stargate user. Hopefully they get things resolved before another quickly eats up their market, as I'd switch in a second if I thought another product had the user base and plug-ins that I needed.
I have the good fortune to be using a JDS stargate for my primary automation needs (didn't think I'd be saying that in 2005), and went to Homeseer to provide a web interface for everything and a few other handy features that complimented my aging, but reliable Stargate system.
Being a typical early adopter, I immediately upgraded to HS 2 when it was first available. Unfortunately, due to the nature of the upgrade, I decided I'd follow the advice and do a fresh install. For those who used HS for their primary automation system, I have no idea how they are coping.
I realize this was a complete overhaul, but it was handled very poorly. The staff seems to underestimate the value of a "bug list" to provide their user base with a list of known issues so that the users don't drive themselves crazy trying to figure things out.
I haven't had much time to dedicate to automation lately, but what little time I do have, I'm trying to get things back to normal such as my audrey automation and other features I used of Homeseer.
I've always recommended the homeseer product to other stargate users, but I'm not sure I can do that for quite some time. They have adopted some policies that are very upsetting. Not only does it appear that they are forgetting they got where they are by the help of their user base that created most of the plug-ins, but they set the minimum for plug-ins at $29.99. A product that does not have their user base behind them, is a product that will be gone from the marketplace quickly.
Homeseer, you've been good to me, and I've always been amazed at your user base that has provided every plug-in I've ever needed, but you've obviously let it go to your head. When I have to pay for a W800 interface plug-in and get nickeled and dimed for everything I want to use, I'd rather install a creston system and have RELIABILITY and know what I'm paying for. I have quite a bit of patience for emerging technology, but they've overestimated the patience of their user base.
I know there are still die hards that will argue with some of my points, as I've seen in this thead and in the homeseer boards, but frankly they are in the minority at this point and unless they plan on single-handedly supporting the company, I suggest they realize that we are only bashing because we are disappointed to with the product, their handling and increased hidden costs that will eventually result in their demise.
From a Crippled, but happy Stargate user. Hopefully they get things resolved before another quickly eats up their market, as I'd switch in a second if I thought another product had the user base and plug-ins that I needed.
Stinger, You're not comparing a $30 plugin (times all the plugins that exist and will ever exist) with the price of a Crestron equivelent system now are you? The reliability thing is also of curiosity to me as well. Frankly I have had not great success with Crestron / AMX systems that I have used. Of course my use has for the most part been in corporate presentation / lecture halls / board rooms, but they Never seem to work right. I am sure that is not the fault of the equipment but in the installation and maintenance and people yanking wires fault. Then again, isn't that a big reason why PC based HA is not always reliable???
Dave-DavidL said:
While home automation is a hobby for most, it is also a big part of our homes. I couldn't imagine someone installing HS2 that was new to home automation. Sure, I'm a techie, so I can get around, but should a user of homeseer know that they need to hit ALT-ESC to bring up a setup window that opens behind the current window?
I'm happy to hear that you have a reliable install of Homeseer 2. My gauge for this product is how well 1.7 worked. I could live with the bugs and limitations of 1.7, what I can't live with is an "upgrade" that was released, not as a beta, that does not currently provide the capability of the earlier version. Different plug-ins are not working exactly the same, such as a problem with the MCSaudrey's slideshow. Oh, that's right, Homeseer isn't responsible for plug-ins, but wait, didn't I pay them for it?
Back to my original statement, they've lost track of how they got where they are. I'm not abandoning anything, and I'll still support them, but that doesn't mean I'm happy at the moment.
"Oh, that's right, Homeseer isn't responsible for plug-ins, but wait, didn't I pay them for it?"
See this is what gets me about plugins. HS takes a cut of the pie but if the plugin author leaves HS says Sorry, were not responsible. I don't know how the law relates to software But they may very well be responsible.. This has happen to at least one plugin..
Any lawyers around??
See this is what gets me about plugins. HS takes a cut of the pie but if the plugin author leaves HS says Sorry, were not responsible. I don't know how the law relates to software But they may very well be responsible.. This has happen to at least one plugin..
Any lawyers around??
You're right, a user should NOT have to know to hit Alt Tab to get to a setup. As a matter of fact, they shouldn't be going to Setup at all! The system should be setup so user's (not necessarily the owner / hobbyiest) can't access setup functions.
I use MainLobby which completely insulates the users from HS setup and workings. I have it so users can't access any MainLobby setup screens either (configuration button).
You can't expect non HS2 plugins to work with HS2. I think you can also expect that at least all the pay plugins will be migrated to work with HS2. I think you can also expect that HS1.7 plugins won't get much more support by anyone (first by HST, then by the private developers). This "not completely available now" situation might put you in a wait pattern for your key plugins to be migrated. I have made sure my plugins that I use are HS2 compatible. I think only the audiotron plugin is one I used to kinda use that isn't ported, but I really never used it anyway so don't really care.
HS's "cut" on a non HST sanctioned plugin is really small. It is really just to pay for the administration costs associated with providing it. You may have "paid" HST for the plugin, but the majority of the money goes to the plugin author behind the scenes. And, it is up to the author to decide whether it's worth his time to port it to HS2. This is a function of how the plugin was originally coded (which is a large determinant on the migration effort), what the author promised (I don't remember any pay plugin authors offering lifetime upgrade support - that would be really really dumb). and what the market continues to be for the plugin (how much qty did it sell before?).
For an HST plugin, I would say there is a bit more "responsibility" to their community to make a good faith effort of conversion. Legally, they still are not forced to upgrade the plugins. They too aren't that silly to offer unlimited upgrade support.
I use MainLobby which completely insulates the users from HS setup and workings. I have it so users can't access any MainLobby setup screens either (configuration button).
You can't expect non HS2 plugins to work with HS2. I think you can also expect that at least all the pay plugins will be migrated to work with HS2. I think you can also expect that HS1.7 plugins won't get much more support by anyone (first by HST, then by the private developers). This "not completely available now" situation might put you in a wait pattern for your key plugins to be migrated. I have made sure my plugins that I use are HS2 compatible. I think only the audiotron plugin is one I used to kinda use that isn't ported, but I really never used it anyway so don't really care.
HS's "cut" on a non HST sanctioned plugin is really small. It is really just to pay for the administration costs associated with providing it. You may have "paid" HST for the plugin, but the majority of the money goes to the plugin author behind the scenes. And, it is up to the author to decide whether it's worth his time to port it to HS2. This is a function of how the plugin was originally coded (which is a large determinant on the migration effort), what the author promised (I don't remember any pay plugin authors offering lifetime upgrade support - that would be really really dumb). and what the market continues to be for the plugin (how much qty did it sell before?).
For an HST plugin, I would say there is a bit more "responsibility" to their community to make a good faith effort of conversion. Legally, they still are not forced to upgrade the plugins. They too aren't that silly to offer unlimited upgrade support.
Dave,
I'm sorry you don't see my points. Homeseer 2 is not ready for primetime, nor should it ever been released as a working version regardless of the pressure. It is a beta in sorts by their own admission, as they said the primary reason that they released it was they weren't getting enough information with their beta users.
Glad to see that they'll have a few supporters still! I'll join back on the bandwagon when I see a working product that has at the very least the same capabilities of 1.7. How many upgrades do you purchase that don't have half of the capabilities out of box as the previous version? They're making X10 look reliable.
Your biased and defensive stance on HS 2 is obvious in your messages throughout this thread. I'm not here to bash Homeseer, I'm here to voice my feedback as a customer. Last I knew, you weren't a paid employee of HST outside of possibly getting revenue from plug-ins, so please do explain why you insist on taking the stance that every complaint on the product must obviously be unfounded or should be dismissed? Honestly, you add more fuel to the fire by taking the stance that you do, when I believe you are truly just trying to defend the product for the sake of HST.
BTW- I'm releasing an automation product in a couple days, I'm only going to be offering it for $29.99 for two weeks, after that it'll jump to $10,000. Please paypal me the money and I'll send you the link for the download. It knocks the socks off of Homeseer 2. It's only been tested on an Apple II and a Kaypro CPM based system, but I'm sure it will run okay under XP.
I'm sorry you don't see my points. Homeseer 2 is not ready for primetime, nor should it ever been released as a working version regardless of the pressure. It is a beta in sorts by their own admission, as they said the primary reason that they released it was they weren't getting enough information with their beta users.
Glad to see that they'll have a few supporters still! I'll join back on the bandwagon when I see a working product that has at the very least the same capabilities of 1.7. How many upgrades do you purchase that don't have half of the capabilities out of box as the previous version? They're making X10 look reliable.
Your biased and defensive stance on HS 2 is obvious in your messages throughout this thread. I'm not here to bash Homeseer, I'm here to voice my feedback as a customer. Last I knew, you weren't a paid employee of HST outside of possibly getting revenue from plug-ins, so please do explain why you insist on taking the stance that every complaint on the product must obviously be unfounded or should be dismissed? Honestly, you add more fuel to the fire by taking the stance that you do, when I believe you are truly just trying to defend the product for the sake of HST.
BTW- I'm releasing an automation product in a couple days, I'm only going to be offering it for $29.99 for two weeks, after that it'll jump to $10,000. Please paypal me the money and I'll send you the link for the download. It knocks the socks off of Homeseer 2. It's only been tested on an Apple II and a Kaypro CPM based system, but I'm sure it will run okay under XP.
Anything would be better than HS2
upstatemike
Senior Member
Does anybody know if Ambient's Virtual Weather Station plugin works with HS2? It doesn't seem to be listed on the HST site and HS2 is not mentioned on the Ambient site.
Stinger,
Bad assumptions. I haven't made a dime on Home automation or Home Theater software. I have spent plenty though.
I say what I believe base on my experiences and others that I talk openly with. My HS2.0 setup has been running fine for months now. Little issues now and again - for example I just realized my Slinke wasn't operating via Homeseer since 1961. I use MainLobby for TVLobby so don't really need it - that's why it wasn't immediately obvious to me it wasn't working.
I defend those that have the guts to try to make a living out of taking a hobby and making it a small business. I understand what they have to go through to be successful, and don't expect anymore than that. To diss a software company for protecting their intellectual property is IMHO, ridiculous and unrealistic.
To expect a new major release of software not to have bugs is also nuts. To get pissed that the company prices their product to make a few bucks (or more than a few) is not realistic. No one holds a gun to your head to buy software. Maybe some marketing dollars, but nothing more. It's still your decision. And it's that company's decisions on how they price, support and provide features. If they miscalculate, they will be out of business and I will be looking for a new flavor of the year software to spend more money and time on.
I am kinda in the software business, though the software my teams develop aren't for retail sale. I know what it takes to build an application, alpha and beta test and the decisions it takes to go "production". For the resources that Homeseer has, my binocular view says they are doing a great job.
Bad assumptions. I haven't made a dime on Home automation or Home Theater software. I have spent plenty though.
I say what I believe base on my experiences and others that I talk openly with. My HS2.0 setup has been running fine for months now. Little issues now and again - for example I just realized my Slinke wasn't operating via Homeseer since 1961. I use MainLobby for TVLobby so don't really need it - that's why it wasn't immediately obvious to me it wasn't working.
I defend those that have the guts to try to make a living out of taking a hobby and making it a small business. I understand what they have to go through to be successful, and don't expect anymore than that. To diss a software company for protecting their intellectual property is IMHO, ridiculous and unrealistic.
To expect a new major release of software not to have bugs is also nuts. To get pissed that the company prices their product to make a few bucks (or more than a few) is not realistic. No one holds a gun to your head to buy software. Maybe some marketing dollars, but nothing more. It's still your decision. And it's that company's decisions on how they price, support and provide features. If they miscalculate, they will be out of business and I will be looking for a new flavor of the year software to spend more money and time on.
I am kinda in the software business, though the software my teams develop aren't for retail sale. I know what it takes to build an application, alpha and beta test and the decisions it takes to go "production". For the resources that Homeseer has, my binocular view says they are doing a great job.
Gotcha! I thought this was an open discussion, my mistake.
So you're the one!! Congrats for winning the lottery of life!
Please don't forget, you only have two weeks to paypal me the money for my new software. The price jumps to $10,000 after that.
Now at least you admit it's tunnel vision. It's valiant to defend based on your understanding of what it takes. Unfortunately, most consumers don't care about the back end, they care about the product.
I guess if my tires ever blow out while driving, I'll sit back and say, you know, compared to Firestone, Goodyear really has a small staff, and I'll be damned if I don't admire their guts and hard work at bringing these tires to market. Oh wait, we're not talking about home automation software there, so I guess that concept doesn't apply.
Dean Roddey
Senior Member
If you are looking to move on, we'd be glad to have you as a customer. We are having a 25% off Labor Day sale, starting on the 5th, so you can get a good price. And it's just one price, since all supported devices are part of the package and it's a site license.
Similar threads
