Homeseer Resource Page

WayneW said:
Rupp said:
I know this isn't as flashy as the censorship word you keep posting but AGAIN the reason that Bob can't post his url is in the license page of the HomeSeer bulletin board.
OK, so then what is a single word to describe unbalanced and unfair enforcement of a company policy and interference with free speech?

Why is Jim allowed to link to his site and NOBODY is allowed to link to Bob's?

To see for yourself, go to an HS MB message and type the following, then click preview.
http://bladeplugins.no-ip.org
www.doosoft.com

Looks like censorship to me. ;)
Wayne,
This one I can't explain.
 
HST did nothing to the thread/forum discussing the Blade code vs Jim code debacle.

HST is not ignoring Blade, I have responded to each of his emails, and as far as I know Rich has also responded to all that he has received.

HST cannot monitor all of the posts or forums on a message board that has had as many as 393 people on it at once (May 7th of this year), has single users with as many as 22,672 posts (Rupp), gets approximately 217 new users each month to add to its current 14,646 members utilizing 237,846 posts in 33,600 threads with about 5100 new posts/month. If we tried, no work would get done - HST is still a SMALL company.

Plug-ins can be free - the author controls that.

Plug-ins can be sold by the plug-in author, but if they do not use HomeSeer's store and licensing system, why should HST resources be used to help that? If you are thinking "because it helps sell HomeSeer", then that is what the free plug-ins and scripts do much more readily than one in which the user has to buy HomeSeer AND buy the plug-in or script.

HST does not certify plug-ins. Microsoft does not certify Windows programs running on their operating system, and they can (and do) break the operating system - a poorly written plug-in will do the same. The 2.x version of HomeSeer has more protection for this than before and a more robust plug-in interface. The PRO-100 platform and software is sold to a professional dealer/installer, and it is they that arrange any sort of warranty to the homeowner. If the installer chooses a 3rd party plug-in that is not well supported or does not work right, then the installer is doing himself a disservice. This is why most professionals test their solutions thoroughly so as to not make their customers guinea pigs.

There is no intended censorship favoritism between Blade and Jim. Notice that Jim still sells DooMotion through our store only, thus HST gets reimbursed for the forum, store web page, licensing system software, and credit card fees for the purchase. The simple fact of the matter is that just like with the Blade situation earlier, we did not notice Jim selling some plug-ins at his site that are using message board resources. (See the note above about our message board activity.) Thus, now that Wayne has successfully tattled on him enough times where I actually saw it, I will have to get Jim to "return" his DooNetwork and DooCPU forums most likely. This is up to Rich and Mark, but if they choose to leave them, keep in mind the spirit in which Jim has been working with us - DooMotion is one of the most successful plug-ins in HST history, and he sells it through our store. Jim also wrote the RCS X-10 Thermostat plug-in, which was used as a framework for 2 other thermostat plug-ins, for quite the small amount, and he stuck with it through thick and thin until he got it working the very best anybody could ask for given the state of X-10 technology. Bob (Blade) on the other hand started off selling his plug-ins through our store, but then later decided that it was not fair our getting money from each sale, and so he pulled the whole thing from our store and started selling it himself. There was a lot of maintenance of the updater, licensing system, and the store that went into putting his plug-ins into those places that we never asked reimbursement for, and he also got a pretty good amount of help/advice/answers directly from Rich and I while he was writing them, again without us asking for any reimbursement for our time. Thus in my book, we have a pretty symbiotic relationship with Jim and a fairly one-way one with Blade. We do not at all harbor any ill will toward Bob after all of this - he is still a user, a developer, and a member of the HomeSeer community. He is most welcome to continue to sell his plug-ins at his site, or like Jim do a combination with some plug-ins sold through our store. The fact remains though that a plug-in that uses our licensing system has to be sold through our store, and we are going to recover the costs for that and our time to maintain the licenses, store, updater, etc. or HST will cease to exist, plain and simple.

I used to like this message board, but all I have seen in it lately (HomeSeer related at least) is that it is a haven for people who disagree with HST policies and want to rant about them. Help this BB get back to its root purpose - discuss home automation. If you have an issue with an HST policy, email Rich - he is the man behind the "The Buck Stops Here" sign. Complaining about it in a public forum is not any sort of civil disobedience that is going to get him to change something. I think anybody who has communicated with Rich will find that he is very much the voice of reason and fairness and does not come up with a policy just for the heck of it. Before you email him, think about what you are asking for, and compare HomeSeer to a few other software packages first. Are you really asking for HomeSeer to give away its software like it used to, or are you really just longing for the good old days when HS cost $29.95 and you want those days back? Intuit has a forced obsolesence program where you MUST buy a new version of their software every 2 years. In 7 years, we have had 1 upgrade. Delorme comes out with an upgrade every year, and it is not free. In each of our 7 years, we have had at least 1 free update, typically more like 3 or 4. Tons of other "free" software packages are crippled if you don't buy the "plus" version, or are adware programs. Given the above scenarios, and as an individual instead of the "employee", I like HST's policies very much.
 
Rick,

The reason I stopped selling the RTM plugin in the HST store was not so HST would not get any money. That is ridiculous. The only reason was so that I could offer all the plugins at the lowest price I could without having to worry about adding in exra cost. That is the reason. I am not trying to take money away from HST. Why would I want to do that? Considering I use HS every minute of everyday, I want HST to succeed.

While reading your post I could not help but feel that you think that I have not contributed at all to the HA community and that I only take and do not give back anything. I do not agree with that. I did do a lot of testing of builds for Rich when HS 2.0 and 2.1 was in beta. I believe I was one of the first people to test the .net 2.0 build of HS and I had no problem helping out Rich and I hope I can help him out in the future. If you think of me as someone who does not want to help out people and only wants to help himself then boy you really do not know me. My whole goal here with the plugins is to help users. Plain and simple. I also like to think that the plugins are also helping HSTs business as well. At least that is the goal anyway.

I fully agreed with Rich when I talked to him on the phone a while back about my site being posted on the forum and I removed the stuff I had posted.
 
Tink said:
HST cannot monitor all of the posts or forums on a message board that has had as many as 393 people on it at once (May 7th of this year), has single users with as many as 22,672 posts (Rupp), gets approximately 217 new users each month to add to its current 14,646 members utilizing 237,846 posts in 33,600 threads with about 5100 new posts/month. If we tried, no work would get done - HST is still a SMALL company.
imagine how much higher those numbers would be if every other thread didn't get deleted.
 
Tink said:
There is no intended censorship favoritism between Blade and Jim.
So Tink, what is HST's policy on linking? Will Bob be uncensored? Will more links to "competitors" be blocked? I noticed you don't censor links to one of your biggest competitors (HAL), so who made the decision to block Bob? Are there ANY other links blocked besides Bob?

I can agree that HST doesn't need to give forum space to projects that are free and/or not sold via HST's mechanism, but blocking a URL seems awful vindictive and petty.
 
Paul said:
Tink said:
HST cannot monitor all of the posts or forums on a message board that has had as many as 393 people on it at once (May 7th of this year), has single users with as many as 22,672 posts (Rupp), gets approximately 217 new users each month to add to its current 14,646 members utilizing 237,846 posts in 33,600 threads with about 5100 new posts/month. If we tried, no work would get done - HST is still a SMALL company.
imagine how much higher those numbers would be if every other thread didn't get deleted.
Yea. I would be at about 40,000.
 
Blade said:
While reading your post I could not help but feel that you think that I have not contributed at all to the HA community and that I only take and do not give back anything.
Bob,

That may be your feeling reading what I wrote, and perhaps it is based upon some feeling that we are out to get you, but I can assure you it was nowhere in my mind when I wrote the post. Again, we harbor NO malice against you whatsoever.
 
Tink said:
Blade said:
While reading your post I could not help but feel that you think that I have not contributed at all to the HA community and that I only take and do not give back anything.
Bob,

That may be your feeling reading what I wrote, and perhaps it is based upon some feeling that we are out to get you, but I can assure you it was nowhere in my mind when I wrote the post. Again, we harbor NO malice against you whatsoever.
Ok... It just sounded that way to me. No problem then :)

I do think that HST needs to censor everyone who is not selling thru the HST store tho. To be fair and all.
 
WayneW said:
Will more links to "competitors" be blocked? I noticed you don't censor links to one of your biggest competitors (HAL), so who made the decision to block Bob? Are there ANY other links blocked besides Bob?
Wayne,

Yes, links to competitor's sites would most certainly be blocked. If there are links on our message board to them, by all means please send me an email and let me know about the thread. This is further proof that we do not scan our entire message board and do not censor any posts unless they are brought to our attention and do break the published rules about use of the message board.

An exercise: Everybody who has had a post removed from the HST message board raise their hands.... OK - now will the 5 or 6 of you with your hands raised please email me so we can discuss it? I bet if you have the text of your posts that I can find where the post became unwanted on OUR message board.
 
Tink said:
Yes, links to competitor's sites would most certainly be blocked.
They are??? Every link I tried worked, so exactly who or what is blocked besides Blade's URL and curse words?

Can't you just quit blocking Bob's URL and be done with this? I am hoping that those extra 20 bytes don't break the bank.
 
An exercise: Everybody who has had a post removed from the HST message board raise their hands.... OK - now will the 5 or 6 of you with your hands raised please email me so we can discuss it?

I have never had a post removed. One time though I was asked to remove one comment in a post I made. I think that request was very resonable and I should not have gone that direction in the post anyway. I changed the post willingly.
 
There were a few other URLs blocked, but thank you for pointing out some others that we needed to add - they have been added.
 
Tink said:
Intuit has a forced obsolesence program where you MUST buy a new version of their software every 2 years.
In the interest of accuracy:
  • you are never FORCED to buy anything
  • they support 3 versions of their products, the shipping one and 2 prior versions
  • their products start at $29, so 3 years use (or more) for $29 doesn't sound bad
  • they announce & document their retirement plans & policies
  • when they ship a new version and offer an upgrade discount, the product is ready to use then, not a year later.
 
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