I know it's been discussed 1000 times, Omni or Elk

C

charliebarns

Active Member
I'm suffer from what many must suffer from when they start to do hours upon hours or reading on HA and security, information overload. I had initially decided on HAI Omni Pro II, but almost every post I read on here people end up choosing the M1. I'm not opposed to the M1 so I've been researching this for hours. I've come up with some differences (I think) but need some clarification from the pros. First, some clarification of what I will do with the system. Initially, security will be the primary focus. However, this new build house will also have 12 CCTV cameras so I'm going to want to view them on the touchscreens. Eventually, lighting automation, sprinkler, HVAC etc. Out of the box the Omni seems to do most of this, the M1 has add-ons I can buy. Here's a couple of concerns though:

Touchscreens for HAI: run about $600 each
Touchscreen for M1: WOW $1200 each, why so much?

Lighting control: I had already decided to use UPB for lighting, but I'm reading that the M1 is a bit flaky in this area, I haven't found any negative posts regarding HAI lighting control.

Programming Language of HAI: probably not too bad to get a grip of, M1 looks like my 4yr old could do it.

UI: I'm not crazy about the look of the interface on the M1 touchscreen, mind you it's only one pic I've seen, maybe it can be improved. The UI of the Omni looks nice and clean, however.

Question: Can you use any touchscreen with any system? That is, can I buy a Symphony from Ademco and use it on the HAI or the M1? Or... could I pickup a few HAI touchscreens and use them on the M1?

Sorry I'm sure you guys are tired of seeing this debate over and over again. But if you have any comments/advice it will not fall on deaf ears.

Thx
 
Where did you read that UPB support was flakey? I am thinking you might be confusing it with Insteon or Z-wave, as UPB support is almost perfect.
 
A M1 biased response:

Make sure you include the cost of the CCTV camera module with HAI.

Do you want to view IP cameras? Directly viewable from the TS07.

Do you want to view Internet content like the weather channel? Directly viewable from the TS07.

The least expensive way to view 12 CCTV analog cameras is through a DVR with an IP output.

Direct iPhone and Windows CE based phone interface to the M1 without a PC server.

12 plus lighting control partners.

New ELKRMS Touchscreen software with a new look and feel. It will be customizable to your look and feel.

ELKRMS has an option for viewing family photos as a screen saver.

New whole house audio control support for control from Rules, Touchscreen, phones, and third party software.

Many third party software vendors to add more capabilities using the open protocol ASCII commands.

Free M1 software updates.

Free M1 ELKRP Upload/Download software.

Unmatched Technical Support. ;)

Constant innovation for the future!
 
Support definitely counts as a major deciding factor which is another reason I'm looking at the M1. thanks for the responses thus far. I will have IP based cameras but I will also have CCTV cameras. Are you suggesting (Spanky) that these cameras are viewed via a browser type interface served by my avermedia dvr? Or do you link buttons on the touchscreen to each specific Ip of the web enabled cctv cameras? With regards to the customization of the touchscreen UI are there any examples of what one *can* do with it? Any screenshots? And with regards to the TS07, is this the only touchscreen that will work with the M1?

Thanks
 
I'm 99.9% sure I can make the aver dvrs work with the TS07 but I haven't had a customer who had both to find out.

EDIT:
Elk to control the aver dvr via io is also no problems, quite complex control is possible.
 
Ok, well an HAI Biased Response since it was asked for...but first i'll answer your questions...

Lighting control: I had already decided to use UPB for lighting, but I'm reading that the M1 is a bit flaky in this area, I haven't found any negative posts regarding HAI lighting control.

A> HAI has their own line of UPB, we have supported it for awhile, so we know what we are doing. Plus using HAI UPB switches, they can be autoconfigured from the Omni. No need for upstart. UPB is a good choice.

Programming Language of HAI: probably not too bad to get a grip of, M1 looks like my 4yr old could do it.

A> I personally don't think the either "language" is difficult. You'll catch on in no time.

UI: I'm not crazy about the look of the interface on the M1 touchscreen, mind you it's only one pic I've seen, maybe it can be improved. The UI of the Omni looks nice and clean, however.

A> Thanks! Our new touchscreens coming out will allow customization. We've already shown it at CEDIA...so I can talk a little about it! ;-) Plus all our current stuff is "plug and play". It looks that good out the box.

Question: Can you use any touchscreen with any system? That is, can I buy a Symphony from Ademco and use it on the HAI or the M1? Or... could I pickup a few HAI touchscreens and use them on the M1?

A> You can use any touchscreen designed to work with the HAI... there are numerous manufacturers that make solutions for the HAI...convergent living, myro, etc. We have an openly available ethernet protocol and a developer forum on our website to encourage 3rd party integration and innovation with us. But generally speaking, you can't just use a Symphony on an HAI, I suspect the same is true of others.


Some things I'd like to say.

No need to buy a bunch of different modules, OP2 comes with 5 serial ports, ethernet, flash upgradable,phone interface, etc.

Free Firmware updates via FLASH.

Free Updates to PCACCESS ( this is our configuration utility...about to release 3.0 version with many new features, new look and feel!)

HAI manufacturers their own switches and thermostats, so everything works together. The new RC1000 and RC2000 and excellent thermostats.

Snap-Link on USB key chain drive allows Encrypted Access to your controller from practically any PC (USB port and internet required). (Free updates of course).

Direct Iphone interface (via 3rd party, but it's free from Itunes store), or windows CE based phone interface with out a server! Plus you can use Web-Link 2 or WL3 for server if you feel the need.

Windows Media Center Interface for Control over your Televisions.

Philips Pronto Module, allows control of HAI over a Pronto. It's awesome... one remote can control your home theater, lights, HVAC, security, everything! HAI wrote and supports the module. It's free.

You can use WL3 on a homeserver to act as your DVR, or there is a Can mounted DVR solution.

Many 3rd party support via ASCII...I have an Onkyo receiver (sr705 I believe) that i communicate with via serial.

Native support for UPB, HAI makes their own UPB switches, that can autoconfigure. Hit the switch 5 times, goes into configure, press "Config" on the touchscreen...no need to use Upstart.

Supports RadioRa, UPB, X10 Centralite, Russsound, Nuvo, Z-Wave, Xantech, and more. Plus more through ASCII.

Supported Whole House audio for a while now, even have our own whole house audio solution, the HI-FI.

HAI has been in the Home Automation Business since 1985. We are a solid company that isn't going anywhere.

I'd say HAI has unmatched technical support too!! ;)

Hope that helps.
 
Wow, there's a HAI guy here now?

Man, e, you do got some serious clout in the HA world...


EDIT: So what say you, Aaron, when are you going to ask Electron for your own subforum on cocoontech like Elk has? That way folks would have more confidence in the awesome tech support ;)
 
IVB said:
Wow, there's a HAI guy here now?

Man, e, you do got some serious clout in the HA world...


EDIT: So what say you, Aaron, when are you going to ask Electron for your own subforum on cocoontech like Elk has? That way folks would have more confidence in the awesome tech support ;)
Click to expand...


Well I don't want to jack this thread, but I'll respond...

Actually I had already though of that, I think is a good idea if Electron would like to, it would give a place for HAI customers to post, and I'll do my best to respond. I'm confident other HAI employees would also (Some already read cocoontech anyway). Traditionally Cocoontech has been viewed by myself and others as sort of a "hostile enviroment" for HAI... I'd like to change that.

Aaron
 
aard3 said:
Actually I had already though of that, I think is a good idea if Electron would like to, it would give a place for HAI customers to post, and I'll do my best to respond. I'm confident other HAI employees would also (Some already read cocoontech anyway). Traditionally Cocoontech has been viewed by myself and others as sort of a "hostile enviroment" for HAI... I'd like to change that.
Click to expand...
Personally, I welcome you to the board and encourage all lurking vendors to speak out.

Boldly speaking for the masses, I am sure no hostility was intended. But I do have to say, the silence from HAI was deafening and spoke volumes to reinforce the idea that HAI didn't want to support DIYers. I know there are a lot of lurkers at every forum on the web and I know that some companies have policies against "unauthorized semi official looking" postings, but perception is often reality and the perception was that HAI didn't care to answer customer questions here. I am glad things are changing.
 
I'm a HAI user, not a dealer and not related to the company.

I've used HAI systems for many years, and I'm happy with both the product and the service. I will have to say that HAI systems definitely can lean toward the high-end, sometimes the cost can be a bit high, and HAI certainly leans toward the more conservative side, as opposed to cutting-edge. In the last few years, maybe because of ELK competition, the products have been updated, and now they are only a few years behind the times, but certainly acceptable. When Ver. 3.0 comes out, that will be a big improvement.

I like HAI because it supports so much hardware and other systems, you never hit a wall. I don't own 90% what it supports, but I could. HAI supports many more lighting technologies than ELK, supports several whole house auto systems, including one they have made themselves, supports cameras, many types of touch panels, etc.

To answer your question, yes, you have to use panels or touch screens from that manufacturer to directly connect to the system, but you can also use HomeSeer or CQC software to connect to the panel, then use HSTouch or a CQC touch panel to control the system. If you are not planning to use HAI video features, you might want to stick with a few basic button panels first, then add the touch screens later. Honestly, with CQC, I don't use the HAI touchpanels much. I use an RF remote from my car to turn on and off the alarm, and CQC can also turn it on and off programatically.

Basically, I would first decide what you need now, and then what might be a long-term goal. With you just use a panel, and maybe some touchscreens with some basic rules programming, and never add-on a PC system? Or will the panel really just be a front-end for a PC type system with much greater capabilities? Why a front-end? Because a PC is not a good reliable alarm, and a PC has rather limited I/O where a HAI/ELK panel excels at these things. It really depends upon your budget, how "techie" you are, and how important it is to you. There is nothing wrong with just having a HAI panel, an alarm, and a few touchpanels and UPB switches. (By the way, UPB is the best lighting control, no matter what they tell you. ;) )

So what can a PC based system do that just a panel can't? You name it. I have LED signs in my house that scroll stock quotes and news headlines. Text-to-speech and voice recognition, and fully controlling just about everything. For example, go to here: http://www.charmedquark.com/ then click on "Supported Devices" just to get an idea.

So again, research really what you want first, before buying anything. The worst thing you can do is buy a system too small for your future needs, then you'll need to rip it all out and start again. On the other hand, if you bought a panel that had capabilities you never used, well, maybe you would have overpaid by a few hundred dollars, but its a less costly mistake than the other way around.
 
To All Cocooners,

I am the Chief Technology Officer at Home Automation, Inc. While a number of HAI employees monitor CocoonTech regularly, I feel the time has come for HAI to establish a more visible presence on CocoonTech. It seems that HAI has a reputation as being unfriendly to DIYers, but nothing could be farther from the truth. Perhaps this is because we haven't been more active on CocoonTech, but this is only because we've had a more established presence on another forum. Our technical support department happily supports anyone who calls our toll-free number, and we have plenty of how-to information on our web site. Our products are available to individuals from a number of our distributors.

HAI has released numerous new products during 2008 and will shortly be releasing our 3.0 controller firmware and PC Access 3 which add significantly to the capabilities of our systems. I will be posting information on this shortly.

I've asked Dan to set us up with an offical HAI forum on CocoonTech. I and a number of other HAI employees will actively participate in this forum as well as the other CocoonTech forums. We'll do our best to support you and keep you informed of the latest happenings at HAI.
 
Wow look what I've started! ;) No not really me but I do appreciate all the responses. To be honest I was starting to shy away from HAI not because it seemed to complicated, but I had likened to to the likes of Nuvo vs. Crestron (audio), Nuvo obviously being very supportive of DIY and Crestron, well, you know. It's nice to see Aaron and Brian offer a voice to the product. In terms of my DIY ability I believe it's fine, and the Masters in Computing Science helps also :) Really it comes down to WAF and functionality. I want/need a stable system, not one that needs massaged on a daily basis but one that can also provide security with some automation. No I don't need auo blinds etc but lighting, HVAC, Irrigation, Video etc. Having had SageTV installed and running throughout the house since 2003 I worry about stability issues with either product (Elk or HAI) as it relates to the WAF. Having tech support (be it this forum or directly) is a must have. Looking through so many posts dating back to 2005 it seems the major deciding factor between Elk vs. HAI was support. Maybe the tide is turning....
 
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