I know it's been discussed 1000 times, Omni or Elk

[icellama21]

I agree with your comments it finding units with the form factor of the TS-07 that makes it a little more differcult..

As far as touchscreens are concerned, you don't need to buy the TS07 to run elkRM(unless you are an installer and extra config time is worth hundreds of dollars). If anything Elk has done a great job of making their touchscreen obsolete by making elkRM so easy to install.

For 1/3-1/2 of the cost of the TS07 you can get a better windows CE, Windows mobile or XP-embedded unit and install elkRM yourself. If you pick a more powerful XP/XP-embedded touchscreen you will also future-proof your system for computer-automation software(CQC, homeseer, etc). Windows Mobile devices(if they are VGA compatible and support the min-resolution) make great roving mobile controls.

I am not a huge fan of plugging products, but in case you didn't know about these:

Samsung Q1: Great 7" XP portable tablet, can wall mount too, on ebay or last year's model for $5-700.

Cuwin 3200: Basic windows CE 5.0 touchscreen with activesync support. $399 off of http://www.comfiletech.com/index.asp. Similar to TS07 but with more memory.

Dell Axim X50v: Can pick these up easily, handheld PDA.

Windows Tablet PC: Many models. Used for $2-300, new for around $700-1200. You get a full PC that you can put on a wall mount and carry around, GPS for car use, etc.

Thin-client in wall + small touchscreen: Can configure this for around $5-800 and you have a full hard drive and XPe machine. Plenty of small touchscreens on ebay.

Small PC + small touchscreen: Something like the ASUS eePC works well.

 

[Brian Yokum]

Hmmm I thought it might have something to do with tough times too.....

HAI have only just appeared in the forum after many years with no or little forum visibility....interesting timing!

Hey, times are tough everywhere. Every customer counts right now.

(This is said in jest......well maybe not if you look at my portfolio right now).

I can assure you that our presence on CocoonTech has nothing to do with tough times. Our plans were to take a more active role on CocoonTech with the release of our 3.0 products. These add many new features that are particularly interesting to power users like Cocooners. Yes, every customer counts, always has, always will.

 

[upstatemike]

I'm suffer from what many must suffer from when they start to do hours upon hours or reading on HA and security, information overload. I had initially decided on HAI Omni Pro II, but almost every post I read on here people end up choosing the M1. I'm not opposed to the M1 so I've been researching this for hours. I've come up with some differences (I think) but need some clarification from the pros. First, some clarification of what I will do with the system. Initially, security will be the primary focus. However, this new build house will also have 12 CCTV cameras so I'm going to want to view them on the touchscreens. Eventually, lighting automation, sprinkler, HVAC etc. Out of the box the Omni seems to do most of this, the M1 has add-ons I can buy. Here's a couple of concerns though:

Touchscreens for HAI: run about $600 each
Touchscreen for M1: WOW $1200 each, why so much?

Lighting control: I had already decided to use UPB for lighting, but I'm reading that the M1 is a bit flaky in this area, I haven't found any negative posts regarding HAI lighting control.

Programming Language of HAI: probably not too bad to get a grip of, M1 looks like my 4yr old could do it.

UI: I'm not crazy about the look of the interface on the M1 touchscreen, mind you it's only one pic I've seen, maybe it can be improved. The UI of the Omni looks nice and clean, however.

Question: Can you use any touchscreen with any system? That is, can I buy a Symphony from Ademco and use it on the HAI or the M1? Or... could I pickup a few HAI touchscreens and use them on the M1?

Sorry I'm sure you guys are tired of seeing this debate over and over again. But if you have any comments/advice it will not fall on deaf ears.

Thx

I have to agree with the folks who suggest you make a list of things that are important to you and work against that instead of just trying to compare features and specs and prices. A feature doesn't really count if you are never going to use it. Here are some examples of things that would be on my wishlist. Many of these features are not supported by either system but it is a place to start by seeing who comes closest. Things I think would be cool include:

1- The ability to easily adjust thermostats from regular security keypads near the doors. I don't mean triggering a preset. I want to be able to easily selecting a thermostat from the keypad menu to see where it is set, and I want the ability of raising or lowering that setting as if I were standing right at that thermostat. (Everybody offers this in their touch screen UI but it should also be available at the alpha-numeric security keypads.)

2- Touch screens that are really clever about what they display. If the doorbell rings all screens should automatically switch to a view of that door. If the phone rings the view should switch to a caller ID display. If you walk in a door while the alarm is set, all screens should go immediately to the security keypad screen so you can quickly disarm. A fire alarm should give you a floorplan showing which detector tripped, etc. And of course the screen should timeout and go back to a default of showing a live weather map or a photo slide show or electricity consumption graphs or whatever. (I know some PC based systems can do some of this but I think the hardware based controllers should be able to do it as well.)

3- Really good audio features in the keypads and touch screens. I would like the keypad and touch screen microphones and speakers to be integrated and to run off the base wiring.. not be be add-ons. I would like to hear detailed customizable announcements from any keypad or touch screen and those announcements should be able to include the speaking of variable values (setpoints, temperatures, CID numbers, etc.) No cryptic beep patterns. No extra wiring and ardware to add the speaker and microphone. I would also like to walk up to any keypad or touch screen and page through all of the other keypads and touch screens in the house (just like they do on the star ship Enterprise!)

4- Really easy point and click, menu driven programming (I don't want to learn a scripting language) but with lots of options. I would point to the JDS Stargate as an example because that programming is menu driven but you have OR logic, deeply nested If/Then logic, and access to pretty much any variable for speaking or triggering. I don't just want to be able to change a thermostat setpoint within a program, I want to detect when it is changed manually, and I want that to trigger an event that speaks a verbal confirmation of the new setting through all of my keypad and touch screen speakers.


Of course you should make your own list of what you think would be the ideal feature set for you. Then after you have that, take a fresh look at both systems and see which one comes closest to that ideal.

 

[felixrosbergen]

I just pulled the trigger and order all the bits and pieces for my Elk system.

To be honest i didn't compare it that much to HAI. Early on or sort of got the feeling that both are capable.

I wanted to do the install myself (for cost reasons and so that i know my system and can work on it when needed, i think a cocooners installation is never trully finsihed and you dont want to keep calling an installer back).

It's quite obvious that many here on CT habe Elks and are Elk fans, so we can't really say we're not a biased group. In either case i haven't seen (but could have easilly missed it) a equivalent HAI userbase group that offer the kind of support.

So my choice was pretty easy, had there been (or had i found) a similar group of HAI users it probably would have been a more difficult decision.

On the touchscreens i agree with what's been said....i can't imagine hving to justify the cost of the TS07 to the wife. A more generic device seems to do the trick just fine. Then again for installers that don't want service call since the Windows client on the device decide to do what windows typically does and want a quick and easy install the TS07 probably makes sense.

UPS says my box of parts has arrived at the home.....guess i'll spend my weekend playing with the Elk and reading manuals....the wife has a hard time figuring out why i would enjoy that.....but i'm sure this group understands..

 

[upstatemike]

On the touchscreens i agree with what's been said....i can't imagine hving to justify the cost of the TS07 to the wife. A more generic device seems to do the trick just fine. Then again for installers that don't want service call since the Windows client on the device decide to do what windows typically does and want a quick and easy install the TS07 probably makes sense.

I'm suprised there is not more discussion about running Elk RM (or any touch screen interface) on an ASUS Eee Top touch screen.

 

[IVB]

On the touchscreens i agree with what's been said....i can't imagine hving to justify the cost of the TS07 to the wife. A more generic device seems to do the trick just fine. Then again for installers that don't want service call since the Windows client on the device decide to do what windows typically does and want a quick and easy install the TS07 probably makes sense.

I'm suprised there is not more discussion about running Elk RM (or any touch screen interface) ons an ASUS Eee Top touch screen.

Given that many folks opt to use a software layer on top of the Elk (CQC/ML/etc), I think that ElkRM just introduces an unecessary point of failure.

 

[123]

... I think that ElkRM just introduces an unecessary point of failure.

Ouch! IVB, what compelled you to diss RM? I don't use it, and fall into your described category of M1 + HA app user, but calling it a "point of failure" is harsh and out of character for you. 'sup dude?

 

[electron]

I think there is a misunderstanding here. ElkRM is a .NET based touch screen interface, so it would be in addition to existing CQC/Main Lobby/HStouch interfaces. Nothing else depends on ElkRM, so there is no point of failure.

 

[Lagerhead]

I think a cocooners installation is never trully finsihed

Amen. There are only "milestones".

 

[IVB]

... I think that ElkRM just introduces an unecessary point of failure.

Ouch! IVB, what compelled you to diss RM? I don't use it, and fall into your described category of M1 + HA app user, but calling it a "point of failure" is harsh and out of character for you. 'sup dude?

I'm not dissing anything, but the physical presence of another widget, regardless of how robust, means there's yet one more thing that could be setup wrong.

I.E., I don't currently have ElkRM on my machine. In order for me to use it, I need to download it, then install it. What if it screws up? What if it gets corrupted?

Compare that with CQC. I already haver that downloaded, installed, & configured on every machine in the house. There's zero incremental risk of using that for the Elk, as opposed to ElkRM.

 

[ano]

... I think that ElkRM just introduces an unecessary point of failure.

Ouch! IVB, what compelled you to diss RM? I don't use it, and fall into your described category of M1 + HA app user, but calling it a "point of failure" is harsh and out of character for you. 'sup dude?

I'm not dissing anything, but the physical presence of another widget, regardless of how robust, means there's yet one more thing that could be setup wrong.

I.E., I don't currently have ElkRM on my machine. In order for me to use it, I need to download it, then install it. What if it screws up? What if it gets corrupted?

Compare that with CQC. I already haver that downloaded, installed, & configured on every machine in the house. There's zero incremental risk of using that for the Elk, as opposed to ElkRM.

I agree with you and HAI is no different. HAI makes lots of touchscreens, and control programs like SnapLink, Web-Link II, etc. and these programs are great for the group of people that just have a panel, but for those that use CQC, or Homeseer, getting a reliable link into the panel is the first goal, then CQC or Homeseer can give you all the control you need. I still use SnapLink and PC Access on occasion, and I even have HAI Windows Media Center access, but for the most part, I'd rather dedicate my time to designing CQC screens, which can do everything these programs can plus more.

I don't think IVB really meant "point of failure" as much as he might have meant "unneeded duplication."

 

[IVB]

I guess "unneeded duplication" could work, but I really did mean "point of failure", although perhaps in a different meaning than others. The more different programs you use to accomplish a goal, the higher the odds that something isn't going to work. It's not that ElkRM is a failure-centric app, it could be the most robust program ever written and never has crashed even a single time for anyone in it's entire history. But if I don't need yet another program to accomplish my goal as I already have something that will do the job, then I should not use it.

 

[amirm]

I'm suprised there is not more discussion about running Elk RM (or any touch screen interface) on an ASUS Eee Top touch screen.

I am super anxious to try it. The thing I have not yet figured out is how to wall mount it. It seems to have a swivel stand and a power jack that comes out 90 degrees! :blink:

Hope they have solid plans to roll out in US instead of just Europe....

 

[upstatemike]

I am super anxious to try it. The thing I have not yet figured out is how to wall mount it. It seems to have a swivel stand and a power jack that comes out 90 degrees! :blink:

Hope they have solid plans to roll out in US instead of just Europe....

The fact that it is NOT wall mount is the thing I like about it... too many in-wall solutions available already. I want a screen I can just set anywhere, plug it in, and it works. The built-in wireless means no network cabling. Full XP means I can use it with anything. And the large screen size means I can make things big enough for my large fingers to control comfortably. Also the fact that it will be under $700 is a nice bonus... probably way under after it has been out for a few months.

 

[fleetz]

Hi IVB,

I have been running ELKRM on a TS-07 and also on my PC and have found it to be 100% reliable. Given it is written by the ELK the manufacturer you would not expect any more or less. It is very robust I have an RTI remote system which adds whatever level of ELK and AV control I need to every room I require control again very robust flexible without the need to have PC or client servers in those rooms.

Your point in your situation is very valid given you have fully implimented CQC however for those who are looking for a reliable inerface for the ELK M1 the ELKRM does the trick nicely and I certainly have not experienced ELHRM as a point of failure, the opposite is true. The pending release of the ELKRMS will remove the lock down nature of the interface as it currently is. Spanky has been teasing us all about other features that will be released in the ELKRMS that will no doubt open the control platform up which need to be done to keep up with it's competitors.

Just wanted to pass on my experience to date of the ELKRM....bring on the ELKRMS.

REgards,

Fleetz

... I think that ElkRM just introduces an unecessary point of failure.

Ouch! IVB, what compelled you to diss RM? I don't use it, and fall into your described category of M1 + HA app user, but calling it a "point of failure" is harsh and out of character for you. 'sup dude?

I'm not dissing anything, but the physical presence of another widget, regardless of how robust, means there's yet one more thing that could be setup wrong.

I.E., I don't currently have ElkRM on my machine. In order for me to use it, I need to download it, then install it. What if it screws up? What if it gets corrupted?

Compare that with CQC. I already haver that downloaded, installed, & configured on every machine in the house. There's zero incremental risk of using that for the Elk, as opposed to ElkRM.