Input Microphone Hardware Question

[dzirkelb]

In order to receive input speech commands for my HA, I am planning on setting up 4 wireless microphones throughout the house...and, I will need some piece of hardware to only output a specific microphone at a time, or else there will be too much noise. I will also boost the signal. So, would these two pieces of hardware work good for what I am looking for?

http://www.8thstreet.com/product.asp?Produ...udio_Processors
http://www.8thstreet.com/product.asp?Produ...udio_Interfaces

Think that'll do the trick? I'll be using Home Seer.

 

[FaderJockey]

In order to receive input speech commands for my HA, I am planning on setting up 4 wireless microphones throughout the house...and, I will need some piece of hardware to only output a specific microphone at a time, or else there will be too much noise. I will also boost the signal. So, would these two pieces of hardware work good for what I am looking for?

http://www.8thstreet.com/product.asp?Produ...udio_Processors
http://www.8thstreet.com/product.asp?Produ...udio_Interfaces

Think that'll do the trick? I'll be using Home Seer.

The Behringer noise gate might do what you need. It will not allow audio to pass until it reaches a threshold that you set.

The only problem is that it doesn't care what that signal is, as long as it's higher than the set point. Those units are also notorious for clipping off the start of whatever you
put through it. So, for example, if you said "Computer", the actual signal may come out "mputer". With some tweaking you might be able to make it work.

The Alesis mixer won't do you much good unless you're going to manually turn channels up or down depending on which mic you want to use.

What would really do the trick is an automatic mic mixer, like a Dugan unit. They're not cheap, but they're designed to do exactly what you're
looking to achieve.

* After re-reading your post, is this something you're going to continuously set manually? Or are you trying to set it and forget it?

 

[dzirkelb]

I would want to set it and forget it...but, I am willing to tweak it until it is at a good setting. I would also like to keep it sort of cheap if possible...not thousand dollars.

As far as chopping off the beginning, I might be able to live with that or tweak it, just as long as the rest of the conversation to my home isn't chopped...meaning, the trigger word I wouldn't mind saying twice. I can just have the trigger word be computer and I'd actually say Come to life Computer".

Any other ideas / hardware ideas are much appreciated also!

 

[FaderJockey]

The noise gate may be your best option then. I can't really think of any other way to selectively open mics 'on the cheap'.

Speaking of which, what mics are you planning on using?

 

[Dave X10]

In order to receive input speech commands for my HA, I am planning on setting up 4 wireless microphones throughout the house...and, I will need some piece of hardware to only output a specific microphone at a time, or else there will be too much noise. I will also boost the signal.

I use a different product... and a different ultra-cheap way of getting my voice to the PC as well. I use $18 baby monitors (the ones that use 49MHz). And I turn them on/off... so I only have one on at a time... using X10 appliance modules. I modified the baby monitor receiver to be a line-in input to the computer.

 

[cornutt]

That's a good solution. When I saw the thread, I was trying to think of some way of using a MIDI-controlled mixer. But it would be pretty expensive, and you'd still face the problem of figuring out how to make HomeSeer output MIDI.

 

[dzirkelb]

I really can't use the baby monitor solution as I need the computer to be able to recognize multiple rooms at once (wife upstairs using it while I'm downstairs using it)...I may use the mic portion, but someone is goign to show me some .50 cent mics I guess that might work.

I really am not sure on what to use for the mics...I might be able to tie them into my phone line wires and pass the voice speech that way for some of them, but I am still goign to need a wireless one somewhere. So, the baby mic's might come into play for one of them..but, I still need the mixer thing.

Any other mic recommendations are appreciated also!

 

[pkoslow]

dzirkelb,

There's a whole sub forum over on the Homeseer message board dedicated to this specific topic... I think you'll find lots of useful information there:
http://board.homeseer.com/forumdisplay.php?f=810

I've done a lot of work using audio conferencing gear which has produced excellent results for whole-house voice recognition. I started with simple audio mixers & gates(similar to what you linked in your original post) over 10 years ago and the had modest success. The audio conference gear adds DSP functionality to the mic mixer/gating and this is what really makes VR work well. You can even get mic gate information allowing Homeseer to know which room you are speaking from.

Here's a few of my old threads to get you started...

http://board.homeseer.com/showthread.php?t=109542
http://board.homeseer.com/showthread.php?t=104151
http://board.homeseer.com/showthread.php?t=81391

You can find a lot more on the Homeseer forum if you search with my username "pkoslow" and keywords like "gentner", "biamp", "crown".

Cheers,
Paul

 

[dzirkelb]

Awesome info there!!

So, as a checklist of stuff to buy, I'll need the following:

AP800
SECU-16

And, however many mic's I need for my setup. Does that about cover it? I will probably be using Home Seer.

What do you recommend for mic's nowadays? I'd like to keep cost down

 

[pkoslow]

Awesome info there!!

So, as a checklist of stuff to buy, I'll need the following:

AP800
SECU-16

And, however many mic's I need for my setup. Does that about cover it? I will probably be using Home Seer.

What do you recommend for mic's nowadays? I'd like to keep cost down

The AP800 is a great place to start. Once you add the mics you'll have a good foundation for whole-house VR with mic gating and DSP.

If you're using HomeSeer, any device that can read the contact closures on the AP800 will allow HomeSeer to know which room you are speaking from which can be beneficial. When I posted those examples I was using the ADI Ocelot/SECU-16 combo for inputs, but I'm currently using an Elk M1G with input expanders to do the same thing.

I've had good luck with the Crown PZM boundary type mics that I listed, but don't have any experience or advice about inexpensive mics that might work...

Cheers,
Paul

 

[ano]

In order to receive input speech commands for my HA, I am planning on setting up 4 wireless microphones throughout the house...and, I will need some piece of hardware to only output a specific microphone at a time, or else there will be too much noise. I will also boost the signal. So, would these two pieces of hardware work good for what I am looking for?

http://www.8thstreet.com/product.asp?Produ...udio_Processors
http://www.8thstreet.com/product.asp?Produ...udio_Interfaces

Think that'll do the trick? I'll be using Home Seer.

Paul has had good luck with this, but I got to warn you, what you want to do is very difficult. I also have used the AP800, expensive in-wall mics, noise cancelation, a high power PC for voice recognition, and spent hours after hours tuning it. After weeks of work, I never could get it to work to my satisfaction. I even had a friend that was a professional audio expert help set it up. Problems include: 1) the gating can cut-off a bit at the front reducing recognition, 2) TV, radio, and you name it would always be falsely recognized as some command, 3) floors, walls, cause echos which are almost impossible to eliminate, and many more. Wireless might work better if you are willing to keep the mic close to your mouth and use "press-to-talk." If your still not deterred yet, setup some proof-of-concept tests before you invest big bucks in your dream. You'll find that a single mic close-in works great, but multiple-gated open mics is a different story.

 

[Dave X10]

Paul has had good luck with this, but I got to warn you, what you want to do is very difficult...................
..... You'll find that a single mic close-in works great, but multiple-gated open mics is a different story.

I agree that pkoslow has compiled a fine bit of data... and most certainly has done an excellent job. I also agree with you that a single mic (as opposed to mixed and/or gated microphones) is relatively easy. I think... the easiest setup/system could very well be intercoms. Simple push to talk interfaces.

I had originally started with just testing different setups. I found the Baby Monitors... so cheap, easy, and reliable.. I simply stopped testing and started using and enjoying.

But.... there are many other factors involved in my success... and [I would imagine] anyone else's.

My home is normally quite as it is just the wife and myself (we don't even have a dog). Our rooms are large and most rooms are carpeted. My wife rarely watches any TV whatsoever.. so I have complete control of that noise source. My wife does listen to music (although not at high volume) and I have arranged the speakers to the benefit of the microphone(s) as well as my wife.

We are grandparents.. and we love having the kids and grandkids at the house. The voice control DOES work when we have company. But it is much easier to use in our normal low noise environment. Someday... I intend to install an intercom set to serve as both wireless microphone and speakers.

 

[drozwood90]

Instead of gating...doesn't Vista + Win7 support multiple Mics?

I know XP down does not...which is one of the reasons I gave up. But this way instead of mixing gating, etc. you would only need one soundcard per "zone".

Basically,that's how my whole house audio is setup. I have one sound card (USB, cost $10ish) per zone. For each Zone, I have one copy of Winamp associated with it, as well as a bank of devices (P1-8 = Zone 1)...which allows for play / pause / stop / FF / RW / shuffle toggle / stop / power. Choosing playlists are through Audreys...potentially moving towards touchscreens...but right not Audreys work quite well!

These functions are fed into a script that I put together, which has special "section" for handling each zone...some zones require power to be enabled to the speakers, some requires the volume to get reset to a known level, etc.

As for speaking, I run multiple speaker clients on the same server...one associated with each output. I do not use any inputs at this time, as I run Win2k3 server...which is basically XP...which does not support multiple Microphones...I want to move towards using the isSpeaking plugin...so control if I need to turn things on / off when a speak is called...but right now there's not too much that I speak, so I just manually turn things on / off as part of the event.

--Dan

 

[Dave X10]

Instead of gating...doesn't Vista + Win7 support multiple Mics?

If ether OS does.... I am unaware of it. Although they would (as does XP..) support multiple sound cards... it would be the association with the speech engine that would be the catch. For a casual walking through the house... walking about and issuing voice commands... I think the mixing/gating is still the state-of-the-art. I accept it as top of the line myself.

Although I do like the sound of your setup. The use of Entertainment PC's for music and movies has certainly been popular.. and for good reason. I have yet to venture into that... as the wife and I just recently started converting to MP3's. We/she also enjoys our DVD collection and I can't imagine the collector in her being as happy with gigs of movie memory on a hard drive.

Would you plan on using a single (maybe Windows 7) computer to handle... Voice Control, Automation, Surveillance, entertainment, and maybe more? My old (and I do mean OLD) P3 HA computer can't handle all I'd like it to now. I keep thinking if I can find a newer, faster, better, HA PC.... my automation will be better too.

 

[dzirkelb]

Instead of gating...doesn't Vista + Win7 support multiple Mics?

If ether OS does.... I am unaware of it. Although they would (as does XP..) support multiple sound cards... it would be the association with the speech engine that would be the catch. For a casual walking through the house... walking about and issuing voice commands... I think the mixing/gating is still the state-of-the-art. I accept it as top of the line myself.

Although I do like the sound of your setup. The use of Entertainment PC's for music and movies has certainly been popular.. and for good reason. I have yet to venture into that... as the wife and I just recently started converting to MP3's. We/she also enjoys our DVD collection and I can't imagine the collector in her being as happy with gigs of movie memory on a hard drive.

Would you plan on using a single (maybe Windows 7) computer to handle... Voice Control, Automation, Surveillance, entertainment, and maybe more? My old (and I do mean OLD) P3 HA computer can't handle all I'd like it to now. I keep thinking if I can find a newer, faster, better, HA PC.... my automation will be better too.

My cpu will handle anything I throw at it basically, and I have access to any OS / Server OS.

I think I will have to do the gating for input. I also thought about the multiple sound cards for speech automation, but I think it would just get too confused.

Now, to bite the bullet and buy it...