Insteon DIN Mount

[mikei-ma]

The folks at smarthome announced a new DIN mounted dimmer for insteon. Has anyone here ever worked with DIN mounting / gang mounting switches? I did gang mounting in my basement in a previous house, it was with X10 and it was aweful performance (well - it was x10 after all)

http://www.smarthome.com/121116AR.html

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

DIN mounting is an industrial control standard where many modules can be mounted on a metal rail. It is meant to be space efficient and sometimes a manufacturer will enable the modules themselves to connect together by sliding them together on the DIN rail (for instance a PLC will control many I/O modules in some industrial control brands).

I'm not familiar with Insteons DIN rail mounting.

I also noticed that HAI is going to DIN rail mounting for some of their I/O modules as well (I did a CES or ISC West review of that this past year).

 

[Del91574]

You typically see DIN rail installed in cabinets where other modules are already mounted, so I wonder if they're trying to break into a retrofit on a home that was already centralized load wired. Seems like a strange product to push towards a more consumer based install.

 

[KenN]

Interesting.

If you look at the Smarthome site, it says this is due to be in stock on Nov. 30. Over on the Insteon site, the group this in with their "Global Products" list (with very little detailed info!). Note the voltage rating is 100 - 240 VAC.

http://www.smarthome.com/2452-222/INSTEON-DIN-Rail-Dimmer/p.aspx

http://www.insteon.net/global-products.html

Looks to me like you could interrupt the cable to a wall switch and put this in, presumably mount a bunch of them near the breaker panel? That would be a challenging retrofit for a North American home, but might work better in other countries, like UK, where they do a "ring" style of house wiring.

 

[Del91574]

True, I can't see this really being popular with a typical "US" install, far too many factors to build in, not to mention, who's going to cut all their feeds, install junction boxes, keep them accessable and then install these units. Also seems contrary to the mesh aspect of the units for coverage in addition to the PLC.

As I said, I could see this in a touchplate or centralized load installation, or as was stated, the ring style.

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

If this is like the HAI Omnibus System DIN rail system, and if it does have a central PLC that can be connected to the I/O modules, then it is worth considering, but only if you are building a new home and want to incorporate the lighting wiring (IMO) to a central point.

This would really limit the resale of the house though as of course it can not be undone to a more conventional wiring scheme.

A central PLC, if it had the brains say of something on par of the Ocelot and had the appropriate interface to a PC would be pretty cool.

I'll have to look into this more when I get some time.

 

[Neurorad]

I DIN mounted about 80 terminal blocks in my rack, for patching speaker cables (4 conductors/zone, 11 zones currently, room for e pansion). I did a lot of research into DIN mounting, and I really like the concept. Saves space.

The TB spring clip connectors, though, were painful. I must have been doing it wrong. I chose some spendy Wago TBs, for improved performance, and they weren't easy.

Not sure how common these spring clips are for other DIN mounted devices.

Is there some special tool, other than a screwdriver, for releasing the connection?

 

[BLH]

I have used DIN Rail devices in machines I worked On.
Many did snap onto the DIN Rail and you used a screwdriver to lift the spring clip to remove it from the rail.

We may also be seeing some Insteon Micro Modules soon. They are in the Catalog VOL 129 I just received.

 

[keepersg]

The folks at smarthome announced a new DIN mounted dimmer for insteon. Has anyone here ever worked with DIN mounting / gang mounting switches? I did gang mounting in my basement in a previous house, it was with X10 and it was aweful performance (well - it was x10 after all)

http://www.smarthome.com/121116AR.html

I purchased a couple of these to try converting a Touchplate system (which is centralized to start with) to Insteon. Worked great. Enables you to leave the Touchplate switches (which are nice looking) in place and make the entire conversion at the centralized wiring box. The ISY-99 recognizes these right away and so does the CQC ISY-99 driver.

 

[gatchel]

As I said, I could see this in a touchplate or centralized load installation, or as was stated, the ring style.

Unfortunately Smarthome wasn't smart enough to make the sense wires low voltage. All of the documentation says it gets it feed for the sense wire inputs from the line. Won't this cause issues when interfacing with older centrally controlled systems? What is that old "thermostat" wire rated for tyically?

 

[Del91574]

Unfortunately Smarthome wasn't smart enough to make the sense wires low voltage. All of the documentation says it gets it feed for the sense wire inputs from the line. Won't this cause issues when interfacing with older centrally controlled systems? What is that old "thermostat" wire rated for tyically?

Depends on the amperage, honestly. I've got light AWG LV that is rated for 300V, but give it any amperage of a real value, it's going to act like a nice fuse.

I think to "take over" a touchplate or relay based system, it's only part of the equation, with the touchplate operating a stepper or ratchet relay, similar to as they worked originally, then wiring this on the load side. Not a 1:1 takeover or easy, but as close as I think you could get without going 100% touchplate again or retrofitting a new touchplate system.

 

[keepersg]

Depends on the amperage, honestly. I've got light AWG LV that is rated for 300V, but give it any amperage of a real value, it's going to act like a nice fuse.

I think to "take over" a touchplate or relay based system, it's only part of the equation, with the touchplate operating a stepper or ratchet relay, similar to as they worked originally, then wiring this on the load side. Not a 1:1 takeover or easy, but as close as I think you could get without going 100% touchplate again or retrofitting a new touchplate system.

Actually, what I did is to wire the relay on the sense side. The low voltage switches control the relay which is a latching switch per the wiring diagram for the Insteon DIN device. This solves any issue of line voltage on the sense side although at the rated amperage, its not really a problem. (This would be a power limited circuit and fit into class 3 probably for which 18 gauge twisted pair with an insulation rating of 300 v would be more than sufficient, at least that's how I understand it, correct me if I'm wrong. If this is correct you could ditch the relay entirely and wire the switches as momentary on the sense side) The load is controlled by the Insteon DIN device which makes it potentially dimmable if you want.

 

[gatchel]

Actually, what I did is to wire the relay on the sense side. The low voltage switches control the relay which is a latching switch per the wiring diagram for the Insteon DIN device. This solves any issue of line voltage on the sense side although at the rated amperage, its not really a problem. (This would be a power limited circuit and fit into class 3 probably for which 18 gauge twisted pair with an insulation rating of 300 v would be more than sufficient, at least that's how I understand it, correct me if I'm wrong. If this is correct you could ditch the relay entirely and wire the switches as momentary on the sense side) The load is controlled by the Insteon DIN device which makes it potentially dimmable if you want.

Thought about that too but it just seems like the missed the boat on a simple 24vac output and inputs. The whole point (in my eyes) of a low voltage centrally controlled lighting system is the "central control" aspect and the "low voltage" aspect. Insteon modules did nothing but replace the old UK style X-10 DIN rail modules of yesteryear. Insteon makes it better than x-10 but it could have been a little better than that, IMHO. But then again, I am the eternal perfectionist that is always looking how to make it "better".